Go Solar?

[Mike6158]

My son (San Antonio, TX) installed panels and two Tesla power walls with 2 days of max power usage available (AC, etc). The system is grid tied so excess power feeds the grid. He operates off grid most days. Sounds great right.

I asked him these questions when I visited a few weeks ago:
(1) what does the power company pay you for the excess power you send them
A: nothing. They let me accumulate credits BUT the tie service fees and other little rip off bs crap eats that up

(2) What did the system cost?
(A) $70,000.00. That's right. Seven Dethousand dollars (financed of course). Mucho dinero. ***-O Beavis-O!!!?

I like solar power. I used to have my ham shack on solar power (took it down when I moved for work. Putting it back is one of the roundtuits on a long list). I'd run the whole house on solar but that turns into more dinero than I want to cough up. It's not maintenance free btw. It takes electronic widgets to make the power useful for AC power. Electronic widgets don't last forever. Even vacuum tube radios from the 40's still have to be repaired.

 

[wvbearhunter]

^^^ You are correct. Our power company (West Penn) charges a whole slew of fees for "aggragating" and "transferring" our solar power. Also, during the design phase they approved all the plans and then after it was all set up and ready to go, they decided we needed a new/larger transformer which was another $2000. However, they had approved the planned system and inspected it during install. The solar company ate the fee because I refused to pay it. They then refused to reimburse us for the excess we created which they are required by state law to do. I had to get the Attorney Generals office involved. It will be another $12000 if we decide to set up a battery bank.

 

[DoneNOut]

Well, I have been remembering the old adage, "If something is that good, I'd have to find it myself, you wouldn't be knocking on my door telling me about it."

Some good points brought up. Thanks so much.

@Muddyboots - OMG!

 

[Muddyboots]

The feedback to grid is simply 100% in utility favor which the solar companies gloss over. The power storage IMO is the best option ONLY if the safe storage is solved. I am not willing to risk house with huge lithium batteries in garage. Obviously the lithium battery storage is stated safe but just look at all the lithium related battery fires: EV's, power tools, E-bikes et al.

I still think wind turbine combined with solar with safe power storage will become available soon. There are other battery systems not based on lithium being developed.

 

[2buffalo]

The feds have to subsidize it to make it viable. Therefore it is snake oil as far as I'm concerned. I pay enough in taxes I won't contribute to the problem.

 

[Weaver93]

The feedback to grid is simply 100% in utility favor which the solar companies gloss over. The power storage IMO is the best option ONLY if the safe storage is solved. I am not willing to risk house with huge lithium batteries in garage. Obviously the lithium battery storage is stated safe but just look at all the lithium related battery fires: EV's, power tools, E-bikes et al.

I still think wind turbine combined with solar with safe power storage will become available soon. There are other battery systems not based on lithium being developed.

If I'm not mistaken I believe there are utilities that limit sell back and penalize for over production. If it were me I believe I would follow in @Muddyboots steps and look for isolated storage and stay off the grid with combined solar and wind.

Funny side note: I have a friend in NJ that has a crane rental business and a tree care company hired him to take down a 150' Eastern Redwood because it blocked a guys solar panels. Go figure!

 

[memtb]

Any savings in cost is a good thing……whether though tax relief, by do it yourself, or simply getting the equipment "on sale"!

My personal opinion is if used only as a means of energy cost savings

* for the short term …..not viable
* for long term…..probably a good investment
If preparation (for we survivalists) for the inevitable power failures/outages…..an absolute must! memtb

 

[SportsmanNH]

I could write a couple pages on this subject from the confrontations I've had with these companies . None of them positive .
I am a land developer , home builder , real estate investor . So I will talk about a few scenarios I have run into . Both with buyers of new homes , sellers of homes that took the plunge into solar, and the Solar Companies themselves with their sales pitches.

Buyer Of New Home ) More than a few times a buyer of my new construction homes wants to have solar panels installed while the house is under construction . He wants to hire the solar company . I tell them all they can have them installed after closing . I dont want to have solar panel contractors on my jobs for liability reasons . I also tell the buyer that as soon as the first screw goes into the brand new roof after closing , their roof warranty is considered void . The solar company now owns that responsibility if there is a leak . Also all electrical components are also void since they will be tinkering with the electric panel. These are written on my warranty that is signed by the buyer at closing . One customer sent his solar company to talk to me to convince me everything will be fine if they come in while the house is being built . After he threw his bogus pitch I said no politely of course . So the buyer had them come in shortly after closing . Within a week after the solar company came in and installed their stuff ( which was a month after we closed ) , the now homeowner calls me and says they have no water. This house has a drilled well . I have my well company ( which is the best co in NH ) come down , and finds the solar company messed with the 220 pump wire and breaker . I called my electrician over . He was in the development working on another house. He looks at it and says " *** ! They could of burnt the house down with what they did ! " . Solar company comes down and I tell him he owes the homeowner a new pump to the tune of $2,850 . He tries to defend what they did to my electrician. My electrician told him he is NUTS and would have the electrical inspector there in minutes to verify. Solar guy shut right up and paid the well company to put the new pump in , AND paid my electrician on the spot to redo the wiring back to code.

Next up will be homeowners contracts with solar companies and what it does to their home value. When I get a moment I will post again. Right now I got a call from Wifey who needs help with some errands . Honey Do list never ends !

 

[Mike6158]

* for long term…..probably a good investment

Problem is neither solar panels or batteries in their current state are "long term". Solar panels don't last forever. All those photons pounding on the silicon atoms, forming holes, and creating current cause "wear and tear" on the PN junctions (diodes). Over time the efficiency of the cells declines. Batteries don't last forever either. Nobody ever wants to put replacement cost in the calculation.

 

[memtb]

Problem is neither solar panels or batteries in their current state are "long term". Solar panels don't last forever. All those photons pounding on the silicon atoms, forming holes, and creating current cause "wear and tear" on the PN junctions (diodes). Over time the efficiency of the cells declines. Batteries don't last forever either. Nobody ever wants to put replacement cost in the calculation.

Many are guaranteed for 20 or more years with little efficiency drop off. Lead acid batteries "do" have a relatively short life expectancy…..once activated! The answer……purchase several sets (if you can afford) that do not have the acid added. Also purchase enough acid to "activate" the batteries when needed.

Three sets of batteries (should easily give 20+ years of service. Having a charge controller that has a "disulfide" mode will help extend battery life!

Hopefully, within a 20 year period…..mankind ( the few left) will be starting to make a comeback! memtb

 

[Mike6158]

5-6 years is about right for battery life. Less if it gets cold. Not Texas cold where freezing starts at 50 degrees. Cold like sub zero. Also less if the thermal cycling gradient is wide (like 100 in the summer and sub zero in the winter).

I spent about 5 years in NW New Mexico. I got back home about a year ago. We have at least 8,000 solar panels and batteries deployed in and around the canyons and mesas up there. We buy batteries by the pallet(s) every month. Sometimes more frequently than that. When I got there I took one of our batteries destined for the recycler home and charged it. Then I used my Rigol DL3021 to load test it. The battery was within spec. I asked them how they determined that the battery was bad. Answer: it had low voltage. :/ I asked if they checked the solar panel or charge controller? Nope. The charge controllers are not MPPT. They work but aren't the best way to charge a battery with solar panels. We cut our battery replacement by about 20% just by having one of the two warehouse people use a good charger and simple Autozone load tester on the "bad" batteries before we sent them to the recycler. The voltage was low for a number of different reasons. Solar panel was too small for the load. The location didn't have full sun all day. Equipment was added without taking added load into account. Bad panels were rare. Those usually had bullet holes in them from out of state hunters. Why out of state? The locals wouldn't shoot them, the would rather steal them.

 

[BillNye]

I always wonder if solar was so good why doesn't China us it to make all of their electricity? They are the largest manufacturer of solar panels. And yet they are using coal plants and if need use oil to make their electricity. Is Biden subsidizing the solar programs here in the US?

For what it's worth China is building an enormous amount of solar power generation. They have the largest solar plants in the world and are adding more

China solar power capacity could post record growth in 2023

China is expected to add 95 to 120 gigawatts (GW) of solar power in 2023, or as much as 30%, a solar manufacturing association said on Thursday, in what would be a record annual rise in capacity.

www.reuters.com

 

[Bob Wright]

My system is owned as the previous owners paid cash for a system. I had to replace the 2 inverters with a single upgraded system. My winter electrical bills run about $75. Summer will be in the low $400 range. We replaced the main house a/c with an 18 SEER so that helped a lot.
I have a small Casita style home for the mother in law.
I have two of each appliances in both homes plus a mini split a/c in the detached garage.
I'm very pleased with the solar so far. My panels are getting older so those replacements will be coming in a future upgrade. I'll be watching for auction sites.
This is in Arizona.

 

[xsn10s]

For what it's worth China is building an enormous amount of solar power generation. They have the largest solar plants in the world and are adding more

China solar power capacity could post record growth in 2023

China is expected to add 95 to 120 gigawatts (GW) of solar power in 2023, or as much as 30%, a solar manufacturing association said on Thursday, in what would be a record annual rise in capacity.

www.reuters.com

China is investing in renewables. But their coal and oil use to make electricity also topped record highs. https://www.reuters.com/business/en...-dirty-power-records-2022-maguire-2022-11-23/