Find seating depth or powder charge first on VLD's?

[twoftagl]

The Berger manual makes a couple inferences but doesn't come out and say which should be done first, unless I missed it. Should I find the best seating depth before working the powder? Or versa-visa?

300wm, 210 VLD, cci250, win cases , H-1000, 26" factory barrel

Chris

 

[benchracer]

You can do it either way. The end result will be the same. However, I recommend testing seating depth first. I have found the preferred seating depth to be a constant that does not change with different powders, etc. Once you have the preferred seating depth figured out, you can freely experiment with powders and primers.

 

[500mag_guy]

You can do it either way. The end result will be the same. However, I recommend testing seating depth first. I have found the preferred seating depth to be a constant that does not change with different powders, etc. Once you have the preferred seating depth figured out, you can freely experiment with powders and primers.

+1.

I as well start with seating depth then work up a powder charge.

Eric

 

[Mabia]

VLD's usually shoot best in the lands. If it's a factory barrel that will be hard to do. Jammed into the lands will give you the highest pressure. My 300 Winmag shoots best jammed, 73gr H1000 powder and Federal 215 Primers.

I have a friend that also has a Winmag and he can't push bullets out to the lands. Seems factory guns have a deeper throat.

Hope this helps.

Randy

 

[bill123]

Deleted.

 

[Mikecr]

VLD's usually shoot best in the lands.

Randy, this isn't and never was true.
Hence the pinned thread here: http://www.longrangehunting.com/for...accuracy-berger-vld-bullets-your-rifle-40204/

I also don't agree that we arrive at the same tune with either approach.
If you adjust powder first and at a bad seating depth, you're less likely to spot your best tune. This, because powder is the finest of all adjustments.
Seating depth is prerequisite as it is a coarse adjustment.

Think about tuning to a radio staion with two knobs, a coarse and a fine.
If your coarse adjustment doesn't put you in the fine adjustment band, you'll never reach tune with fine.
And when you manage to hit on a station with fine, adjusting coarse at that point will only take you faster away from your tune.
There really is a best order to it.

As mentioned, once best seating is found, it doesn't change with that bullet. This is the proper coarse adjustment, and with it you can move on to fine adjustment(powder).
Primers and primer striking is another coarse adjustment. Don't expect that you can fiddle with either of these and remain anywhere near a previous fine tune.

 

[mrb1982]

I am no veteran at this, but when I worked up some I started with seating depth. I pick a descent starting safe powder charge, somewhere on the low end of what others are using for the most part, and do the seating test. Then I work up my charge at my best seating depth from that point on up. Worked really well on the first go of them I did, now I am gonna switch to a different Berger bullet and I will be trying it again. Like I stated, at this point I am not a veteran on the topic though.

 

[Mikecr]

+1 mrb1982

 

[joshua99ta]

I do it a little differently. I'll load 5-10 @ .005" off the lands and then work up a load. Then I'll stay around that load and play with the depths. IF I find nothing that'll work there I'll move to a lesser or greater charge and do it again. I know I waste a whole bunch of powder and bullets but I like to shoot either way and that kind of gives me an excuse to excessive shooting.

But I'm single with no kids and I work 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off so time isn't an issue. I wish I could say money isn't but once I get the load I like I don't mess with it any more. I'll load up all the brass I have for that rifle and stash em up.

 

[twoftagl]

Thanks all for the input! I'll start at ten off the lands, find the sweet spot then roll from there with the powder. I've only been able to scrounge two lbs of H1000 since last year so I need to find something that works quick. Fingers crossed...

Chris

 

[Pdvdh]

As mentioned, once best seating is found, it doesn't change with that bullet. This is the proper coarse adjustment, and with it you can move on to fine adjustment(powder).

Do you believe this is a good rule of thumb for all design of bullets, and not just VLDs? I've always done powder charges first, believing powder was the coarse tune. Guess I need to readjust when I work up my next load and see how it goes.

 

[bigngreen]

I always start at .020 of the lands, I don't want or have any interest in putting a bullet that I'm hunting with any closer. I then find my max charge and velocity increase per grain, I then select an operating range I want to run in and I load a grouping test, out of that I will select the best and if needed I will adjust the seating depth for fine tune, if it fights me a little I load a primer test and that usually brings a clear winner. I don't like wasting barrel on tinkering, if I go 50 rounds looking for a load I make a bullet change and if I struggle with a couple bullets a barrel is in order!

 

[Mikecr]

Do you believe this is a good rule of thumb for all design of bullets

First, I have no idea why best seating is prerequisite to best grouping. I just know it is.

I've referred to seating adjustment as coarse tuning for illustration, but in reality seating adjustments are barely affecting tune. In fact a 'fine' seating adjustment in the end works to 'shape' grouping. And maybe this is why people see seating as a fine adjustment.

I treat it as coarse because it affects grouping by far more than powder adjustment. So much so, that if you're seated in a bad place, you'll miss best tune with powder. You just won't be able to see it, as bad seating position will mask best results from powder.
When you test for best seating with a method(like Berger's), you'll find good potential and pure ugly and good potential again and ugly again. Imagine at that point what ugly would do to any 300yd ladder. Would you really be able to spot powder nodes with bullets spraying all over hell?

There is also purpose seating, best be damned. This to reach the ultimate work-around in tune (high peak pressure). A competitor shooting a popular underbore(6PPC, 30br, 6.5x47L) must have this. They'll pick fastest powder, jammed, and or extreme neck tension to reach it, and tune with powder only, and shape grouping with fine seating tweaks.
But high pressure isn't viable in larger cartridges(hunting cartridges). So purpose seating doesn't apply to us hunters.
Don't try to guess best or 'starting' seating. Find it up front, log it, and stay with it.

 

[Methow Packer]

I always start at .020 of the lands, I don't want or have any interest in putting a bullet that I'm hunting with any closer. I then find my max charge and velocity increase per grain, I then select an operating range I want to run in and I load a grouping test, out of that I will select the best and if needed I will adjust the seating depth for fine tune, if it fights me a little I load a primer test and that usually brings a clear winner. I don't like wasting barrel on tinkering, if I go 50 rounds looking for a load I make a bullet change and if I struggle with a couple bullets a barrel is in order!

I too start at .015 with VLD. It appears to always be a good starting point for hunting purposes. I wouldn't want to jam a bullet for hunting purposes either. In my 300WM I've used .015 w/ h1000 with .5 MOA accuracy but I wanted to mention the same accuracy w/IMR7828SCC FYI. At .5 MOA you'd think that's plenty good for a hunting rifle but I can't leave it alone. SO at that point I'll adjust seating depth again to see if groups get smaller. Of course then you have to tweak the powder charge. It goes on and on. That's the fun part of reloading