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Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by keithcandler, Sep 30, 2006.
thanks in advance!
I can't speak for Kirby, but that won't stop me from guessing /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Kirby is at a disadvantage here, as the barrels he uses don't have a copper fouling problems. The first gun Kirby built for me ( 300 RUM, Lilja 30" # 8) - had virtually no copper fouling when I did the break in. The next two RUMs he built for me also had little to no copper fouling.
I doubt Kirby would argue with Lilja
Q. What does Lilja Rifle Barrels think of the use of bore solvents with ammonia? [ QUOTE ]
A. While we're aware of "bad press" associated with the use of cleaners with ammonia as part of the solution, we have never seen any damage in one of our barrels caused by the use of ammonia. The rumor is that copper-removing cleaners with ammonia will pit and damage the interior surface of a barrel. Ammonia is very effective as a copper remover. We use solvents, such as Butch's Bore Shine, to remove copper during the break-in. We routinely leave Butch's solution in the barrel over night too. Again, I repeat, we have never seen a problem with ammonia in the concentrations found in commercial cleaners, in either our chrome-moly or stainless steel barrels. This includes examination with our borescope.
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I just completed a 15 shot cleaning after each shot followed by 5 3 shot combinations w/a cleaning after each 3 shot combination break in job on one of Kirby's Lilja 277 barrels.
Used Sweets and only saw very little copper up to the 5th single shot. After that no copper what ever.
Left sit overnight with WipeOut after the 15 singles. No copper. Left it sit over night after the 5 3 shot combinations and cleanings still no copper.
Cleaning will be with Sweets 7.62 in that barrel from now on. Don't seem to need any of that rough stuff as with factory barrels even after Tubbs Final Finish.
I recommend Tetras copper cleaner for the initial barrel break in and then Butches Bore Shine after that as Lilja recommends.
I am not a fan of Sweets. No question it is a potent cleaner but I have seen barrels etched by this cleaner when used over the life of the rifle, I have a 6-284 that this happened to. As such, Tetras is as strong a cleaner as I recommend.
Damn /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif Where do ya get Tetras (Tho't that was fish /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif)?
I walked into Kirby's shop one day with my 7mm AM and he cleaned it right off the bat and used Tetra. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif That was the first I'd heard of it but I was told to get some, so I did.
Since then I've got some from "Brownell's Web Site" and I've also bought some from Sportsman's Warehouse. I've used their solvent and lubricant also.
Hi Another good solvent is montana Extreem 50BMG it has amonia in it but it is an oil based versian not a water based type like sweets. The Montana is completly barrel safe. we have cut and polished an old piece of stainless barrel and left 50BMG on it for a week ading more each day to make sure their was active chemicals at work all the time and it did not etch the surface. I use it on all my rifles now even if i use molly in them it is the best i have found. If you have a barrel that does not foul the standard Montana Extreem is very similar to Butches so i would reccomend either of those aswell. The beauty of all three is that they are barrel safe and remove the carbon and copper fouling without using more than one product and they all work well on molly aswell. with Moly i clean as ofen as without and in the same manner with a bronze brush let the barrel soak for 10 minuites then patch out and reaply and when i get home patch out again and if the barrel stil has copper leave in overnight then patch out again and that is it. Bill Shehane only uses 50BMG now because it works very well and you are not scrubing away at the barrel you are letting the chemicals do the job and not harming the barrel with excess rod wear.
I agree with Kirby about Tetra Copper Solvent. I started using it about 18 months ago, and found that it still removes copper after Sweets, Butches Boreshine, Hoppes, and a host of others seem to have given up.
I have been using it the last week in cleaning the barrel during the break in, and then load development with the 156 grain Wildcat of my Krieger 7 twist barrel chambered for the 257 Weatherby. Regards, Brian.
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Hi Another good solvent is montana Extreem 50BMG it has amonia in it but it is an oil based versian not a water based type like sweets.
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I've had good luck with
MT X too.
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we have cut and polished an old piece of stainless barrel and left 50BMG on it for a week ading more each day to make sure their was active chemicals at work all the time and it did not etch the surface.
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That was the test design I ran by an eminent ammoniacal chemist (and a lab chemist). They both quickly pointed out the test was completely invalid because ammonia needs oxygen to be reactive. We finally designed a good test. I built a sealed container with a chemical pump - I would pump oxygen thru the barrel stub. After a week I would send a control sample of the original ammonia AND a sample of the barrel ammonia to a lab for spectrograph analysis (looking for Fe atoms).
The materials engineers I've spoken to all insist high strength ammonia will etch stainless steel.
I just ordered an 8oz can of Tetra.