Factory Remington Accuracy Potential

[lckytylr]

I'm sure I'm not the only one here that "started somewhere" in their quest for stretching their limits with a factory rig . . . so how many of you are there that got the long range bug but didn't have the funds to go custom, so you made do with what you have? What I'm after is some guidance/opinions on when "good" is "as good as can be expected" with regards to a factory rifle and the accuracy, seating depth and barrel length limitations that come with it. Is a 3/4" group as good as I can expect, or 1/2", or are some of you guys lucky enough to have found the right single hole mix with a factory 700?

I have a bone-stock factory Rem 700 in 300 Rum and am learning the ropes of reloading and long range. I'm very green in reloading, my father-in-law has lots of reloading experience, but none with regards to precision accuracy, so we are both learning in that regard. We have been experimenting with loads for Berger 210 LRH's pushed by Retumbo with non-match grade CCI's. I was able to get 4 holes touching (linear as barrel was heating up with a 5th shot "flyer" about 1/2" away from main group) with 5/8" group at 100.

Next on our list of development is switching to match grade Fed 215's and H-1000.

I'm not giving up on Retumbo, just trying different things. I'll probably try the Accubonds and the Bergers with various powder increments, lots of experimenting ahead.

Anyway, at what point do you guys think I'm chasing the "un-achievable" with a factory 26" SS Rem 300 RUM?

Some day, I hope within 2 years, I'll be able to make the plunge into the custom world, but until then, I'll kill things within my rifle's and my own abilities.

 

[MudRunner2005]

I've got a bone stock Remington 700 5R MilSpec .308 Win that has shot .313" and better groups.

 

[brentc]

I'm sure I'm not the only one here that "started somewhere" in their quest for stretching their limits with a factory rig . . . so how many of you are there that got the long range bug but didn't have the funds to go custom, so you made do with what you have? What I'm after is some guidance/opinions on when "good" is "as good as can be expected" with regards to a factory rifle and the accuracy, seating depth and barrel length limitations that come with it. Is a 3/4" group as good as I can expect, or 1/2", or are some of you guys lucky enough to have found the right single hole mix with a factory 700?

I have a bone-stock factory Rem 700 in 300 Rum and am learning the ropes of reloading and long range. I'm very green in reloading, my father-in-law has lots of reloading experience, but none with regards to precision accuracy, so we are both learning in that regard. We have been experimenting with loads for Berger 210 LRH's pushed by Retumbo with non-match grade CCI's. I was able to get 4 holes touching (linear as barrel was heating up with a 5th shot "flyer" about 1/2" away from main group) with 5/8" group at 100.

Next on our list of development is switching to match grade Fed 215's and H-1000.

I'm not giving up on Retumbo, just trying different things. I'll probably try the Accubonds and the Bergers with various powder increments, lots of experimenting ahead.

Anyway, at what point do you guys think I'm chasing the "un-achievable" with a factory 26" SS Rem 300 RUM?

Some day, I hope within 2 years, I'll be able to make the plunge into the custom world, but until then, I'll kill things within my rifle's and my own abilities.

The first thing I would do is extend out to 200 yards and quit shooting 5 shot groups and settle for 3. There is no need to burn up your barrel with five shot groups, unless that's your intention. The first one or two are the ones that count. If your first three from a cold barrel are a consistent 5/8 MOA every time, quit chasing your tail and go hunting. I think you're doing great if your groups are consistent. If you haven't already done so, a trigger job and some bedding will only help.

The match primers may or may not do anything for you. The only way to see is to try them. However, for some reason, after trying multiple primers in my rifles I most often return to CCI 250s and 200s for the best ES. The exception is my 7mm Rem that prefers Fed 215 or 215Ms.

 

[Rick Richard]

I have only done this once with my Remington 5R in 308, but was able to place 5 shots into a single hole. Most often, it will shoot in the .3s. Most accurate out of the box gun I have owned.

 

[Truc]

a Remington model 7 in 350 mag was my most accurate factory rifle, it would shoot in the .3's off the bench, and in the .4's standing and leaning against a post with a Leupold 2x7 VX-11. Once a Guy that was watching me was stunned it shot so well with that kind of recoil. I was pleased.

 

[Engineering101]

ickytylr

I don't have any factory rifles that haven't been tweaked. But the tweaks are ones that everyone should do if you want to improve accuracy. Float the barrel, bed the action, etc. I still consider them stock factory rifles because they have parts that were produced by a major rifle manufacturer.

I shot the group in the attached pic this morning with my Savage 114 Classic. That rifle has the usual tweaks plus I replaced the original 22" factory barrel with another factory barrel - a surplus 300 RUM 26" varmit contour barrel I got off Numrich's site for $95.

I also added a competition recoil lug, epoxy bedding, magnum bolt head to mate properly with the 300 RUM barrel, and a 4 port muscle brake. Because the barrel I put on it is a "factory" barrel I still consider it a factory rifle though I have to admit that the recoil lug and brake are not factory parts.

Another example, 2 days ago I picked up a Sako Finnbear in 7mm Rem Mag. It was in mint (really new) condition. The guy who owned it had done nothing to it and I'm not surprised he sold it to me because it can't have shot in the condition it was in. 24 hours later I had cut 1/2" off the butt and installed a new Limbsaver recoil pad, got all the copper out and floated the barrel, tweaked the trigger from 8+ pounds (it was astoundingly horrible) to about 2.5 lbs. Then I took it to the range with a couple of different loads that both grouped a tad over 1" at 200 yards. I wouldn't even shoot it until it had the basics done to it. To put it another way, a factory rifle that has been modified in no way is probably a disaster compared to what it can be with a few tweaks you can do yourself in half a day. Your rifle however seems to be shooting pretty good.

The main thing you get in a custom rifle beyond the stuff I do to my rifles is a top tier barrel. They are really nice because they go a lot more shots before they foul. That 300 RUM I used this morning is only good for 15 shots and then you gotta clean it otherwise groups go from what you see there to the size of your fist. Top quality barrels will handle many more rounds than that. I have a Brux that picks up zero copper ever and I don't know how many shots it would take to compromise its accuracy. But as you can see that Sako Finnbear and Savage Classic are plenty accurate factory rifles. So the bottom line - there is nothing wrong with a factory rifle as long as you make sure the basics have been done to it.

By the way, I agree with brentc. Move out to 200 yards. You don't learn near as much about your rifle at 100 yards as you do at 200. And forget the match primers. They are the same exact primers as the regular primers but they just do some statistical hand waving over the lot and call them "match".

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

I've got mostly stock factory rifles; only one has many custom touches at all. For the most part my rifles get a trigger job and bedded/ floated if necessary. I've got a bone stock 300rum lh bdl with zero mods that'll toss three in an inch at 200 with 4 different loads. My rem 375h@h is also bone stock and she's sub moa all day long at 8# scoped. We've also seen a few rifles that should have never made it out the front door at the factory; big chambers, funky rifling, etc..

Make sure they are straight and tight and usually load development isn't that bad.

 

[lckytylr]

Thanks a lot guys. I'll see what I can do for some of the tweaking that you all mention. As I've never done it before and it's my Only go-to big game hunting rifle, I am hesitant to mess with mods that I've never done.

But, I'll do some research and try it one step at a time.

Question, what's the advantage of replacing the recoil lug and what's a good one that I should get?

 

[Engineering101]

Factory recoil lugs are stamped and are therefore not as true (flat) as one that is machined to be flat as is typical of the aftermarket recoil lugs. Factory lugs also tend to be thinner than aftermarket lugs. However, you could skip that mod and probably not notice the difference. I've got rifles with stock recoil lugs that shoot fine.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Thanks a lot guys. I'll see what I can do for some of the tweaking that you all mention. As I've never done it before and it's my Only go-to big game hunting rifle, I am hesitant to mess with mods that I've never done.

But, I'll do some research and try it one step at a time.

Question, what's the advantage of replacing the recoil lug and what's a good one that I should get?

Just have a gunsmith mic it and see if it's flat and true...If not, they can mill it down where it meets the action and barrel for a true fit. Not a big deal at all.

If you just want a new one, PTG stainless recoil lugs are good, and so are Holland.

Your factory lug should be around .186" thick.

I have a PTG stainless .200" lug on my .25-06 Ackley Improved, but all the rest of my rifles (including big magnums) all use factory Rem recoil lugs that have been machined to a proper surface area.

 

[LaHunter]

If you are getting 5/8" groups at 100 yards with a factory rifle consistently, I would consider that good.
I would also recommend going out to 200 yards and beyond. I don't think you really get a good evaluation of your rifle and ammo at 100 yards. Little things can really show up at greater distance that you will not see at 100 yards.

One word of caution, if you start tweaking your factory rifle, you will look up in a couple of years and you will have $3,500 tied up in a custom rifle before you know it, not to mention who knows how much tied up in reloading equipment and supplies.

Good Luck

 

[FearNoWind]

I'm sure I'm not the only one here that "started somewhere" in their quest for stretching their limits with a factory rig . . . so how many of you are there that got the long range bug but didn't have the funds to go custom, so you made do with what you have ?... when "good" is "as good as can be expected" with regards to a factory rifle and the accuracy, seating depth and barrel length limitations that come with it. Is a 3/4" group as good as I can expect, or 1/2", or are some of you guys lucky enough to have found the right single hole mix with a factory 700? ...

Based upon your interest in this forum I assume you're interested in hunting accuracy as opposed to competition target accuracy. Hunting accuracy, as I define it, requires you to be able to consistently put your shots into an 8 inch circle. When you can't do that the target, IMO, is out of your limits.
I've owned a lot of Remington 700 rifles. None of them, in any caliber, failed hold a group of .5 MOA or less at 100 yards with carefully developed reloads. Most of them would hold .75 MOA or less at 300 yards. Because they're production guns I have found some of them to have less free float clearance than I like so some trimming is sometimes needed. Also, it never does any harm to bed the actions and make certain they are properly torqued when mounting them into the stock.. That's about all it takes to create a fabulous hunting rifle.
A suggestion: "One hole" results require a well designed, well built rifle with the proper load. The component all too often overlooked is the shooter. Not only the ability of the shooter to hold the rifle precisely the same way with every shot, but physical limitations (e.g. eye sight, fine motor skills) that are unique to all of us. If you can get them all touching at 100 yards (usually 1 MOA or less) I'd recommend that you stop chasing the wind and consider it a job well done.
I'd also suggest that you do some ladder testing out to 300 yards to find the most promising load, the work with the OCW (optima charge weight) tests to fine tune your loads.
OCW Overview - Dan Newberry's OCW Load Development System
Best of luck and good hunting.

 

[lckytylr]

Thanks Guys, this is exactly the kind of information I need.

For you guys that have sent thousands and thousands of rounds down range, at what point did you reach that level of comfort and shooting ability where you thought you were "peaked out"? How do you know what the limiting factor is . . . you or your rifle? Fine motor skills, eyesight, breathing, intense focus and commitment to each shot . . . at what point did you realize "That's as good as I can shoot, the Rifle still has more accuracy that I personally can not realize"?

I don't think I've hit that point. I have a fairly high level of comfort with calling my shots. In all honesty, I feel as though a lot of my shots are broken well, good breathing, steady crosshairs, intense focus on a very small corner of a target box, it usually feels really good.

I'm not a life-long shooter. I grew up hunting whitetails with a bow or shotgun, so my shots were always really close. I did take great pride in making clean and humane kills, but an 80 yard shot with a pumpkin chunked is a totally different game. So, with that, I'm still honing my shooting skills.

In a round-about way, I'm wondering whether or not I'd benefit from a Custom Rifle that has a lot more accuracy potential . . . or if it would be an un-justified waste of money to get something that I'm unable to match capabilities of. For example, after a few seasons of racing a 600 cc street bike on a closed course, I realized that, although I REALLY enjoyed it, I wasn't going to become the next MotoGP champion of the world. I'd realized my personal limitations, so it wouldn't have made sense for me to go out and buy a brand new Ducati or MV Agusta track weapon to chase a series title . . . it simply wasn't a reality.

Anyway, I really enjoy reading your replies. Thanks for what you all have contributed thus far.

 

[Barrelnut]

Thanks Guys, this is exactly the kind of information I need.

For you guys that have sent thousands and thousands of rounds down range, at what point did you reach that level of comfort and shooting ability where you thought you were "peaked out"? How do you know what the limiting factor is . . . you or your rifle? Fine motor skills, eyesight, breathing, intense focus and commitment to each shot . . . at what point did you realize "That's as good as I can shoot, the Rifle still has more accuracy that I personally can not realize"?

I don't think I've hit that point. I have a fairly high level of comfort with calling my shots. In all honesty, I feel as though a lot of my shots are broken well, good breathing, steady crosshairs, intense focus on a very small corner of a target box, it usually feels really good.

I'm not a life-long shooter. I grew up hunting whitetails with a bow or shotgun, so my shots were always really close. I did take great pride in making clean and humane kills, but an 80 yard shot with a pumpkin chunked is a totally different game. So, with that, I'm still honing my shooting skills.

In a round-about way, I'm wondering whether or not I'd benefit from a Custom Rifle that has a lot more accuracy potential . . . or if it would be an un-justified waste of money to get something that I'm unable to match capabilities of. For example, after a few seasons of racing a 600 cc street bike on a closed course, I realized that, although I REALLY enjoyed it, I wasn't going to become the next MotoGP champion of the world. I'd realized my personal limitations, so it wouldn't have made sense for me to go out and buy a brand new Ducati or MV Agusta track weapon to chase a series title . . . it simply wasn't a reality.

Anyway, I really enjoy reading your replies. Thanks for what you all have contributed thus far.

When I run out of time and/or money. It's a never ending quest. You can always improve something. That's the FUN in it.