Yeah I think I got mixed up and thought you were saying something you weren't, that's my fault!Absolutely! I was speaking to the bullet size and distance decision. Specifically for elk at 500 yds+ distance, I'd opt for a 300WM or up to ensure an ethical drt shot. And a little range time to dial it all in prior. But that's just me. It's all good
Energy or bullet diameter most important?
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No sweat. It's all good. The variables are endless. Believe me, I know how hard it is to figure out what caliber works for what...As I stated, to me it's a measure of game size, distance, dangerous(or not), and whether or not I happen to have that caliber in hand. Or can I make something work. If not, it's down to the lgs time. Again.........can't believe I said that!
memtb
Well-Known Member
Requirement has zero to do with cartridge/bullet sizes except by the laws issued by the state or country in which the animal will be hunted!
I've actually met (in Wyoming) more people elk hunting with .375 H&H's than I have with 30-30's. However, thats a very small sampling for my survey! memtb
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I used 165gr Ab or Bt noslers bullets on my elks. All of mine except for one dropped in their tracks. That one was because of poor shot placement, a 2nd finish the job.
With the elk taken down I like the 338 WM the best out of all the calibers being used. It puts a little bigger hole in them. I moved to a 338WM after going to Africa the first time. Felt I was a little under gun. In either time in Africa they were one shot kills except for one. Again poor shot placement and getting rush by others around me. That mistake I won't do again. I use a 200gr Nosler AB in the 338 WM doing 3230fps.
I see 270, and other rifles in the field for elk. Most were taken by single shot. So I feel that if you have a bullet that will open up and drive through the animal leaving a good wound channel it works for me. I am not a believer in small caliber rifles being used on elk, and at the same time I don't feel that heavy bullet is needed. Especially targets bullets for hunting. I realize they are a long range bullet, but mostly for targets.
Now if you are hunting the Big 5 in Africa then there generally requirements to use larger calibers. What that size I don't really know.
Also have to remember that Jack killed most everything in Africa with a 270.
With the elk taken down I like the 338 WM the best out of all the calibers being used. It puts a little bigger hole in them. I moved to a 338WM after going to Africa the first time. Felt I was a little under gun. In either time in Africa they were one shot kills except for one. Again poor shot placement and getting rush by others around me. That mistake I won't do again. I use a 200gr Nosler AB in the 338 WM doing 3230fps.
I see 270, and other rifles in the field for elk. Most were taken by single shot. So I feel that if you have a bullet that will open up and drive through the animal leaving a good wound channel it works for me. I am not a believer in small caliber rifles being used on elk, and at the same time I don't feel that heavy bullet is needed. Especially targets bullets for hunting. I realize they are a long range bullet, but mostly for targets.
Now if you are hunting the Big 5 in Africa then there generally requirements to use larger calibers. What that size I don't really know.
Also have to remember that Jack killed most everything in Africa with a 270.
Couldn't agree more!
Sealesniper
Well-Known Member
the three things you need are:
Good Bullet
Good energy (min of 1500FT# large game 850FT# deer sized)
Good ethical CONSISTENT shot placement and the ability to not drop the hammer unless you are 100% confident in the shot. 99% of lost animals is not from energy or bullet but bad shot placement.
Good Bullet
Good energy (min of 1500FT# large game 850FT# deer sized)
Good ethical CONSISTENT shot placement and the ability to not drop the hammer unless you are 100% confident in the shot. 99% of lost animals is not from energy or bullet but bad shot placement.
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NEED those minimum energy figures, or you PREFER those? Nothing wrong with personal preference.
If you think they're needed though, I'm curious as to why, since you already stated you need a good bullet, which I agree with that. A truly "good bullet" will work well even with much less energy potential than that. And some bullets still don't perform well with more energy potential than that.
Again, there's no issue if that's simply your personal preference and what works for you. Saying or implying we all need to be at those numbers is what I'd say is inaccurate.
Not trying to be a jerk or be petty, just trying to clarify.
memtb
Well-Known Member
Absolutely! As I've said before, energy is vastly overrated! Energy falls far below the top two or three things needed for effective killing of big game! Hydraulic shock, energy, ect. are very effective on varmints, and except in rare circumstances …..do they play an important part in the taking of big game animal. The larger the game….the less ft/lbs of energy plays a role! memtb
200gr Nosler AB in the 338 WM doing 3230fps? Is this a misprint? Those are 338 RUM speeds.
memtb
Well-Known Member
It does appear to be a bit warm…..maybe a new post in the "Reloading - What pressure sign do you stop at" thread!
memtb
Most hunting bullets have a minimum reccomended velocity so they can expand properly. Particularly with the all copper ones. I tried a couple at minimum speed and they fell flat. 1500 fps is a good point to stay above. I've gone down to 1200, but then you are rapidly approaching transonic (depending on the altitude). You guys already know this stuff. As always, it's what you are comfortable with. It's all good!
My 338WM calculates out @ 3230fps @ muzzle FPE @ 4632, and at 500yds it's still has 2036fpe. Zero at 200yds it's drop 34.44" @ 500yds.
My 308 NM @3300fps muzzle and 3989fpe, A 500yds is 2322fps, and 1975fpe. Zero at 100yds drop @ 500yds is 36.39". So the flight path would be about almost the same if zero at 200yds.
I hadn't look at this in a long time. This gets me back to using the same velocity in different rifles makes for a lot easier figuring where hold your rifle to elevate for longer shots. I did this a very long time ago, and learn how to judge ranges using my 2x8 duplex scope to size up the animal for longer shots. It would quick well. That was back in the day of funcky ranger finders or none at all.
The velocity helps with only 70fps difference.
I have said it before and will again. I load to be accurate, and velocity. If I can't achieve the velocity or accurate. The rifle isn't for me.
Now I never tested those 2 rifles for any longer distance than 500yds. My grouping were about 3" at 500yds. Somewhere around 1/2" @ 100yds. Once I figure what I am going to use for that rilfe, I don't change. I generally have a bullet and velocity in mind to start with. Putting the right components should do the trick. Not always. Only one rifle I ever had problem with.
Sealesniper
Well-Known Member
Personal preference from time in the field. Course if you read up on ballistics, seems most "experts" agree with these basic energy numbers, but I understand your point and agree that less energy with a good bullet and perfect shot placement will do the job. I for one, like to have my game ethically taken dead right there, so to me, there is no over kill on bullet or energy. The above numbers are considered general rules of thumb but by no means the absolute minimum.
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