ELR where is the SD and ES discussions

[DebosDave]

Hello everyone, I have a question that has been on my mind for quite a long time. I have observed from a distance the ELR conversations and have digested my fill of which bullet, caliber, optic and so forth. One thing that I have failed to observe is based in the reloading aspect. I know there are discussions of which powder and bullets, but I don't see a lot of discussion about brass prep, and Standard Deviation or Extreme Spread. I always find it amusing when I hear about the 1 mile cold bore shot on a man sized target, but don't hear about obsessive reloading practices. I am not meaning this to question the ability to make a 1 mile cold bore shot on a man sized target, I am just saying that there are those on the sidelines that probably don't understand where ammunition needs to be in order to do this with any repeatability. Maybe I just don't see these conversations, or maybe people are holding their loading secrets close to their chest, but when I start to think about the fact that an EDS of 20 fps will create an 11" difference in impact at a mile in the best case scenario, and it goes down hill quick from there it starts to complicate things beyond my understanding. Are all our ELS guys secretly prepping brass, weighing cases, turning necks, sorting bullets, turning ogives?? Where is all the talk of what it takes to reach these ELR distances with reloading practices??

 

[ar10ar15man]

sorry we are not allowed to discuss those secrets.
go look at top of the line 1000 yd br shooters, and refine from there

 

[DebosDave]

I am aware of the BR shooters, the ES and SD conversations come up regularly in those circles

 

[mobenzowner]

I pay great attention to statistics and chrono data and I'm not a BR shooter. I look at reloading posts on a lot of other forums as well, as I'm sure others here do also. Perhaps like me, they post that kind of stuff elsewhere. But I would suspect most of the folks here pay at least some attention to the numbers.

 

[shaughn]

The indepth reloading prep and mathematics of extreme long range...that is usually reserved to sites or people who are interested in discussing it extensively and indeed starting out...it can be dry picky stuff...same as advanced ballistics...and since we are on a LR hunting site.. I imagine that many already do it and are more interested in discussing other facets of the practice of sending bullets out to extreme distances..I weigh brass and bullets, someone I know weighs primers too..hand measure every charge and take a fair bit of time with case prep..run it all thru chronographs, some of us have Oehler 43's and do pressure testing and use it to tweak that optimum load....but it is a dry subject and I don't usually get into them myself online, because it is plain old everyday thing for me.

 

[Capt RB]

Does this mean I have to buy the stuff marked match?
In reality it's one thing to sign up for an event. It is an entirely different approach to show up expecting to win such an event.

 

[DebosDave]

I guess the root of my question is based on this being a hunting site. Whether it is referring people to a reloading site or not, I find it odd that there is limited discussion about reloading practices, especially considering a "good" ES of 25fps would be considered adequate in most hunting situations. In ELR or even long range hunting the lack of single digit ES right out if the gate will stretch the boundaries of ethical hunting IMHO. I believe it is a disservice to not have this conversation, especially with all the already intense scruitiny surrounding the sport. But I agree this site is better suited to making sure anyone out there with a wizbanger cartridge thinks they can dump animals at 1500 yards... A bit different game than walking rounds into a piece of steel.

 

[bigngreen]

Most of the guys I know do the typical prep for a presison type event, the best tune at the ranges they compete. You can have a 1 sd load out shot by a 20 sd load because of the other variables so I think elr is more about lowering all the variables to the lowest level together while tuning at long range.

 

[Capt RB]

I guess the root of my question is based on this being a hunting site. Whether it is referring people to a reloading site or not, I find it odd that there is limited discussion about reloading practices, especially considering a "good" ES of 25fps would be considered adequate in most hunting situations. In ELR or even long range hunting the lack of single digit ES right out if the gate will stretch the boundaries of ethical hunting IMHO. I believe it is a disservice to not have this conversation, especially with all the already intense scruitiny surrounding the sport. But I agree this site is better suited to making sure anyone out there with a wizbanger cartridge thinks they can dump animals at 1500 yards... A bit different game than walking rounds into a piece of steel.

For me a good es is 10 for 5 shots in my lightweight hunting rifles. Anything target it is single digit for 10-20 shots depending on what kind of course of fire. Most on here that actually shoot long will have low single digit sd's that are repeatable if you follow solid reloading practices.
There use be a loads page that has been removed most likely due to people not working up to the data posted. With today's advancements in being able to get good velocities in any situation 25fps really isn't acceptable. I get better than that from a bunch of different rifles with a bunch of different box ammo.
Most of what is typed about dumping an animal at 1500yds is just type on a screen. The person stating it usually has no idea and he heard it from someone else. There are guys on here that regularly shoot beyond 2000yds. I'm not one of them.
You should start a thread or ask Len to write and article about the finer points of reloading to create the load to shoot extreme long range. I don't own a single rifle that will stay supersonic beyond a mile at my altitude of 15' above sea level

 

[jasent]

You see those kinds of things talked about in the reloading section and long range section. This is ELR, those are topics for the 101 crowd.

 

[Alibiiv]

The indepth reloading prep and mathematics of extreme long range...that is usually reserved to sites or people who are interested in discussing it extensively and indeed starting out...it can be dry picky stuff...same as advanced ballistics...and since we are on a LR hunting site.. I imagine that many already do it and are more interested in discussing other facets of the practice of sending bullets out to extreme distances..I weigh brass and bullets, someone I know weighs primers too..hand measure every charge and take a fair bit of time with case prep..run it all thru chronographs, some of us have Oehler 43's and do pressure testing and use it to tweak that optimum load....but it is a dry subject and I don't usually get into them myself online, because it is plain old everyday thing for me.

So please let me get this right, this site and sharing the information on it is all about you? Is that what you are saying here, if not please elaborate a bit more on this post please! I personally have gotten a whole of helpful information on case prepping and loads and bullets.

 

[Hand Skills]

You see those kinds of things talked about in the reloading section and long range section. This is ELR, those are topics for the 101 crowd.

Indeed, pretty much why I joined LRH;

https://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/#rifles-reloading-optics-equipment.12

 

[jasent]

https://www.longrangehunting.com/threads/key-to-low-es-on-reloading.155195/#post-1091348
There are 3 pages that came up in my first search but this one stuck out

 

[shaughn]

So please let me get this right, this site and the information on it is all about you? Is that what you are saying here, if not please elaborate a bit more on this post please! I personally have gotten a whole of helpful information on case prepping and loads and bullets.

Is it all about me? No but how would you express what you (in this case me) are thinking and speculating on the lack of discussion about a particular subject in this particular thread that pertains to LR or in this case ELR, but to base it on your own feelings and experience and why you or other experienced shooters/hunters/reloaders might not want to fixate on what you are already good at or do as a matter of course...I mean really...