edge vs ultramag is there any difference

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by 338ultramad, Sep 11, 2010.

  1. 338ultramad

    338ultramad Member

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    newbee Questions Ha ok here goes ive got a 338 ultra has anyone compared the two rifles equally i geuss what im trying to say is has anyone put the 4 grand in a custom 338 ultra then compared it to the 338 edge, the reason im asking is for one the ultra will shoot store bought ammo got into that last year at a hunt were only box ammo was allowed lead tip only. then on top of that i was reading were the edge lost accuracy when case was filled with heavy load of powder, now i have 338 ultra loads with 82 to 91 grains behind 300 match kings, im thinking about throating mine and doing some other things. the reason behind these questions is i have the rifles to build the edge but if there are not great differences i just soon not tear my 300 ultra up cause it was a shooter out of the box just unbelievable. i already had to down size my scope on the 338 cause it rattled every large heavy scope loose the only scope i have that will stay put is 3200 bushnell. this gun has brake and custom thumbhole weighted stock those dam 300 MK with a compressed load whips those scopes around good. got leapold bases and rings on all my ultras the 300 ultramag seems to have a great deal more recoil but i never had a problem with it . so if i set my 338 up like the edge meaning same barrel,trigger and bolt wont it shoot equall to the edge. i read were the edge shoots best with like 92to 94 grains powder anyway. GO EASY PLEASE
     
  2. LongBomber

    LongBomber Well-Known Member

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    There is a little over 100fps difference. To actually have a fair test of the two you would need to shoot the rifle as a 338rum record the velocity, then re-chamber to edge and shoot again for velocity. I am not sure if anyone has done that. As well getting edge velocities from a 338rum is possible, but your pressures would be nearly "proof" loads. You would be way above the standard saami pressure for the rum casing. You will see guys crying about case life, and they are likely pushing the limit with pressures. If you need the speed get a larger casing.

    For your question about powder charges, it depends on the powder you use. For the same powder in both cases it would be a roughly 4-5grain increase. If you compare IMR7828 in the rum, and H-1000 in the edge there will be a large difference in the charge weight. Need to compare apples to apples.

    As to your scope problem. It depends on which Leupold rings you are using. The Leupold dual dovetail rings may not hold the scope with a braked rifle. They do not have much area holding the scope and have only one screw to tighten them. A set of Mk4 rings should hold. I run MK4 rings on my edge and have no problems at all. If you search on this site, several guys are running more than one set of large tactical rings on 338 edge and larger rifles. A rifle with a brake will start to move backwards with recoil before the effect of the gas hitting the brake starts to pull the rifle forward again. A braked rifle is very hard on scopes due to this.

    If you are thinking of having the throat re-cut in your 338 rum, you could have it re-chambered to an edge at the same time. You said that you have a 300rum as well, so with an edge you can stock up only one size of brass.
     

  3. 338ultramad

    338ultramad Member

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    cool LB you give me more some more new ideas as far as powder i like the retumbo and H1000 for these guns! just that last winter in january i drew a 2 day hunt it was bitter cold 0- temps and i did not get the performance that i had in the fall at 400 yards my bullets were 36 inches lower in the cold. but that could have been the dam store bought ammo i had to use last minute i had my 7mm rum set up with balistic tips,300 also,and the 338 was the only gun i had a couple boxes i had picked up when i bought the rifle.
     
  4. B23

    B23 Well-Known Member

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    Everyone looks at things from a different angle that's for sure. But, IMHO, if you are going with an aftermarket barrel, why would you not want to take advantage of the FPS increase of the 338Edge.

    For me, the only way I would have a custom barrel chambered in standard 338RUM over and Edge would be if I wanted to make sure I could still shoot some type of factory ammo. Otherwise, I see no reason to not take advantage of the FPS increase with the 338Edge.

    This is just an assumption but I would guess the majority of people who spend the money to have a custom barrel installed, also, use custom ammo. Weather that be hand loaded by themselves or someone else. I'm not saying there aren't some out there that only shoot factory ammo thru their custom barreled guns but I can honestly say I don't know a single person that has a rifle with a custom barrel that doesn't reload.
     
  5. bigngreen

    bigngreen Well-Known Member

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    From zero to 1400yrds an elk won't be able to tell you the difference between a 338 RUM and a 338 EDGE!

    There is a thread somewhere that I think two guys had these vary two chamberings and the RUM was equal or a little over the EDGE but I think it had a little longer barrel.
    I don't think it would be a big deal to push the RUM chamber out to an EDGE with a chamber reamer.
    My buddy is going with the RUM because it is plug and play reloading and it looks like it may be just a little easier to get to go though a mag since it is just a touch shorter, maybe.
     
  6. jimbothepunk

    jimbothepunk Well-Known Member

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    Just my 2cents it may of been covered already. I have read (on here) that the 338rum from rem is shorter than the 300 rum to try and stop people chambering the wrong round in the wrong gun so you do get a bit more case size over the 338 rum but as previously stated at distance 1000 yards + it's a few hundred fps and a little more hitting power.

    Hoped it helped

    Lucas
     
  7. Eaglet

    Eaglet Well-Known Member

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    Another concern that has been previously posted is that the 338 rum is moving into the "discontinued" list; and the 338 RUM brass will cease existing. But there will always be a bunch of 300 rum brass.

    I don't know how true these statements are. I have just read them more than once.
     
  8. Long Time Long Ranger

    Long Time Long Ranger Well-Known Member

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    They are the exact same thing performance wise in a hunting situation and either will do anything the other will do. That is why me and most others dropped the 338-300 ultramag when the 338 ultramag was introduced in 2001. When I developed the 338-300 ultramag in 1998 it was the best thing going for a guy to get into serious long range shooting at big game animals. Anyone who had a standard magnum action could easily and inexpensibly rebarrel to the 338-300 ultra and with a little action work be sheer terror on long range animals. Back in the 90's I probably did a hundred of them for long range elk hunters. It would not compete with the 338-378 wby wildcat but there wasn't enough difference to be worth the expense of doing the wby wildcat since you needed a mk 5 action or a custom.

    Then in 2001 Remington introduced the 338 ultramag which did the exact same thing with over the counter products and fed much better through standard mag actions with long bullets. The 338 ultramag is the better round because of the advantages it offers. I tested both extensively during that time period and have shot the 338 ultramag over my two 338-300 ultramags I have had since 1998. Stick with your 338 ultramag.
     
  9. jwp475

    jwp475 Well-Known Member

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    The 100 or so FPS advantage to the 338 Edge over the 338 RUM with 300 grain SMK is something to consider
     
  10. AJBello

    AJBello Active Member

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    I was weighing the same decision about a year ago (338 RUM vs 338 EDGE). When I really sat down and looked at the arguments some make against the Edge, only one really made sense... factory ammunition available. For me, this didn't matter, and I would never use factory ammo in this role anyhow. I'm having a 338 built for long range shooting, which requires precise and consistent ammo, knowledge of exact velocity, etc. I am never going to walk into Jimbo's Corner Market near my hunting grounds and need ammo. Load your own, load it well, and go prepared... my 2 cents.

    Some other arguments against Edge:

    - In order to fit mag length with 300 SMKs, you lose the extra capacity advantage, so you might as well go 338 RUM anyway.

    --- Get a Seekins DBM, or Wyatt's extended box mag, problem solved. Seekins offers 3.94" COAL, Wyatt's offers 3.82" COAL. Some minor gunsmithing of the action required (cost me $75 to have installed from my smith, big deal).

    - There's extra work required to form the brass.

    --- BS. Every bag of Remington brass I get has dinged necks and needs to be run through a sizing die anyway before loading. It takes no extra effort to put in the tapered expander ball and size the necks up to 338 during this step. THERE IS NO FIREFORMING. Run it through the die with expander ball one time, and then it's done for the life of that case.

    - The RUM will do everything the EDGE will do.

    --- Sure it will... 100 FPS slower. Slower is slower is slower, Period. 100 FPS more (general consensus) is an advantage. However small I'll take it. To argue that is kind of silly to me. Following that line of logic, you could talk yourself right into a 338 Federal. :rolleyes: I don't contend my Edge will be able to do everything a Lapua Improved will do. It won't. It's slower. At some point that comes into play. Edge, FOR ME, was the best compromise of cost / barrel life / velocity / energy / etc.

    It also does seem to me that 338 RUM is slowly being scaled back by Remington. If you look at their product line, not much available in it anymore. Whether brass availability could be an issue in the future... who knows. But it doesn't hurt to be on the right side of that issue if it ever does come up.

    I would recommend 338 RUM for anyone who wanted to buy a factory rifle and not reload. For anyone else, the Edge has the edge ;-) . ***EDIT*** In that case though, I would probably recommend a R700 MLR in 338 Lapua... so I guess I would never recommend the 338 RUM.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2010
  11. 7mmSendaro

    7mmSendaro Well-Known Member

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    I have no experience with the 338RUM but I do have a 338 Edge built on a M700 action. It is by far the easiest cartridge to reload for I have ever been around. At least this particular rifle is not sensitive about bullet run-out (within reason), powder charge or OAL. The combination just flat shoots well. I have heard similar stories from other Edge owners.
     
  12. bigngreen

    bigngreen Well-Known Member

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  13. GNERGY

    GNERGY Guest

    I rebarreled my 338 Ultra mag to Ultra mag again. I had dies and brass already and didn't want to do the extra brass work.
    Plus out to 1000 yds 100 fps isn't going to make that much difference.
    I'm not planning on shooting 300 grainers either. I'm working with the 225 Barnes TTSX's.
    Tarey
     
  14. Long Time Long Ranger

    Long Time Long Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Back when the 338 RUM came out in 2001 I shot it quite a bit head to head at my range with the 338-300 ultramag I developed in 1998. The velocity difference depends on the individual barrels. Some 338 RUM's shoot faster than some 338-300 ultramags and the reverse. I think this ficticious 100 fps thing came from most 338-300 ultras were done with 30"+ target barrels and most guys shooting the 338 RUM had off the shelf 26" barrels. Head to head, apples to apples, same length barrels there is no 100 fps difference. It just depends on the individual rifle. I get tired of these internet junkies that keep reading internet BS and repeating it making people think this miraculous edge they now call it ( been called by many names since 1998) is some kind of miracle cartridge.

    It is an excellent cartridge. I knew it would be as soon as I got my hands on the 300 RUM specs in 1998 and immediately knew the best version of this would be 338 and worked to design a reamer and throat dimensions for it. I had realized for many years the 338 with the heavy, high BC bullets was the best for long range elk and was at the time working with several top gunsmiths around the country to come up with the best improved lapua design. The Lapua and Ultramag cases were a blessing to the 338 long range shooters coming up through the 70's and 80's blowing out the 378 wby and 416 rigby cases to get extreme velocity 338's. The Lapua and ultramag will not match those velocities but with the ultramag case here was a cartridge that could be easily rebarreled on a standard magnum action and for little expense put a guy into a very good long range 338. Also no more expensive lapua and wby brass. Here was the ultimate for a working mans 338 and that is why I jumped on it hard in 1998 and pumped it all over the country. By the turn of the century I had several top gunsmiths who were working on the improved Lapua now going like gangbusters on the 338-300 ultramag because they didn't need an action required for the lapua or 378 wby case. Anybody with a standard magnum action and a little action work and they were good to go. This was the beauty of the cartridge.

    But it is what it is and no more. There are no golden bullets with it. It is a good 338 for the price but will not compete with the big custom rifles off the improved 378 or 416 rigby cases. It was not developed for that but the hype unfortunately got beyond the capabilities. Again it is no better than the 338RUM. I have built and shot enough of both to know. I have hunted all over North America for many years. During those years I was glad on several occasions I was shooting a rifle I could buy a box of bullets for. It flat out saved some high dollar hunts for me when my custom loaded bullets didn't show with my bags. The 338 RUM will do anything the 338-300 ultramag will do and do it with over the counter ammo and products. Also it feeds way better through standard magnum actions with long heavy bullets. Not nearly as much action modification is needed. The 338-300 ultramag just didn't make sense after 2001. If a guy paid custom money he wanted the top performer on a hunting weight rifle like the improved 378, 416 or lapua. In the ultramag case the 338RUM was a better fit leaving no need for the 338-300. So in 2001 the 338-300 ultramag just fell into no mans land for most of the gunsmiths of the time.

    I have or have shot about every wildcat anything out there and enjoy them all. I don't care what a guy shoots. But I want a new guy who doesn't have my experience to make his choices from clear and accurate information and not hype on the internet.

    Most guys never will shoot beyond a half mile in a hunting situation and the 338 winchester may actually be the best choice for anyone who does not shoot beyond a half mile. Lightweight, no muzzle brake, extremely accurate. If a guy shoots beyond a half mile the really big 338's are best. So where does that leave the ultramags anyway. Just food for thought from a guy who has hunted with them all.