What kind of short/mid-range groups do the best custom rifles shoot, "out of the box"?? What kind of accuracy do you consider acceptable during break in and preliminary load testing?? The custom built rifles I've played around with, until recently, weren't my own. They belonged to others who had already done the load development. I have however owned a few factory rifles, that with minor improvements and alot of load development eventually shot 1/4 to 1/2 minute groups at 300 and 400 yds, and quite regularly. I was told by my great uncle about 20 years ago that a high quality precision rifle will shoot just about any good bullet decently.? I've also heard that fine custom barrels don't take alot of load development, and they are not nearly as picky as factory rifles when it comes to finding a load that will shoot 1/2 minute or better at short/medium range.? The problem I've encountered, on 2 of 4 new customs, is that they seem very picky about the loads they will shoot acceptably. I've tried different scopes and that didn't make a huge difference. I am talking minimun of 1 minute to maximum of 3 minutes with some loads. For me, "acceptable" performance is 1 minute at 200 yds during preliminary testing only, and then we fine tune from there to get the sub 1/2 minute performance. Seems that a fine custom should shoot just about any decent ammo (including todays premium factory loads) into 1 minute at 200/300 yds without any fiddling around. Am I incorrect in that assumption?? What do you competition shooters require/expect out of a new rifle before you send it back to the smith? Thanks in advance for any suggestions/replies.