Cold bore vs clean bore...same thing?

[crkckr]

I would lean towards a bedding issue, since it sounds like you have issues with both, clean and cold shots. Some rifles need a bunch of 'fouling' shots, some just one or two but cold shots can be a problem no matter how fouled they are. Personally, I never let a rifle sit for very long without putting some oil down the bore (but *never* anything with teflon!) since I've had a couple turn to ca-ca due to rust/pitting. The usual fouling (burned/unburned powder, carbon, etc., that's the chaulky white stuff) is hydroscopic and will suck moisture out the air and leave it in your barrel. If you're humidity is low, that's great but if not, a bit of oil can save the day. Run a clean dry patch through the bore before shooting and 1 shot should get everything back on track (ha! Famous last words!).

Fouling shots can be a huge pain in a hunting situation. Take a chace on alerting everything within a mile or take a chance on that first cold or clean barrel? If the rifle has to be warm to shoot straight, you're in really bad shape! That's something that needs to be fixed!
Cheers,
crkckr

 

[Deleted member 107666]

Jesus fellas...its a small clean bore vs fouled POI shift, groups slightly more open when cleaned down to bare steel (not uncommon from what I can tell)...not everything is a bad bedding job or a bad barrel. It's a manners, bighorn/proof barreled action, pillar bedded by Mile High...its a 1/2 minute rifle/load.

Not sure how we got from a question on leaving it fouled vs cleaning to have it sit a few weeks before a hunt, to a "the sky is falling, your bedding and barrel are jacked up".

Just wanted to know if leaving it fouled for a few weeks was too long to sit. Trying to avoid cleaning as groups open up after barrel has been stripped down pretty well.

 

[ShtrRdy]

answer : foul bore before going hunting.

 

[J E Custom]

A cold bore shot simply means that the barrel is at ambient temperature and has not been fired lately. It can be a cold bore that the barrel is clean, or a cold bore shot that is in a fouled bore.

Some rifles shoot their best cold bore shot clean and others shoot their best fouled by one or more shots. You have to find out which you have.

I have rifles that always shoot there best clean and others that need a fouling shot before going hunting to assure that the "First" shot is on the mark.

I have shot my best groups with clean barrels and normally get 4 or 5 good hits before accuracy is effected after that the barrel becomes fouled and even though the consistency is better, The group size is larger buy a small amount.

J E CUSTOM

 

[Coyote_Hunter]

We NEVER clean our barrels between the last trip to the range and a hunt, muzzle-stuffers excluded. Too much risk of unacceptable POI change, especially at longer ranges.

 

[BKM]

Vandy321, I'm not throwing off on ur rifle at all. Please don't misunderstand. U stated that u went back to the range and shot again and was 1" high. Maybe i missed something in ur post. U didn't state the distance u shot.

I assumed u were probably shooting 100 yds.
If that is correct then u are 1 moa high.
While that's not going to cause u to miss an animal at 100 yds it is cause for concern.

When u move to longer distances u are still going to be 1 moa high.
300 yds is 3", 500 yds is 5" and so on. That much difference can get u in trouble.

While it's not uncommon for good rifles to shoot dirty cold bore shots slightly different than when the bbl is warmed up 1 moa seems excessive imo.

I just don't want u to miss or wound an animal and ruin a good hunt.
Leave ur rifle fouled and learn where it hits when the bore is cold. Best of luck on ur hunt.

 

[RYEWSKY25284]

After a good cleaning, my rifle takes 10 or so rounds to get good and fouled and shoot. Is that a cold bore or clean bore issue?

I didnt clean at all between my last trip and still threw 1st shot high.

Shooting where I want it at 800 yards with a warm barrel and about 40 rounds since last cleaning. This is my last range trip before a hunt in 2 weeks.

Do I run a wet patch or two through it? Or just leave it? Hate to have a question in my mind about a clean vs fouled poi shift.

Any reason to not just put it in the safe fouled?

You may have answered your own question on (1st shot high) that sounds like a cold bore issue. it sometime take a few shots for a barrel to settle down. It may be beneficial to work on getting the first cold shot worked out on paper before the hunt. Or, how good are you with Kentucky windage.

 

[308stillbrass]

Most of my guns shoot low on the first shot or 2. I always figured it was because of less pressure considering there is no fouling and possibly some oil residue from cleaning. I assumed this created a bore with less resistance and lower pressure. Seems practical but I'm no metalurgist.

 

[Ol' Red]

Jesus fellas...its a small clean bore vs fouled POI shift, groups slightly more open when cleaned down to bare steel (not uncommon from what I can tell)...not everything is a bad bedding job or a bad barrel. It's a manners, bighorn/proof barreled action, pillar bedded by Mile High...its a 1/2 minute rifle/load.

Not sure how we got from a question on leaving it fouled vs cleaning to have it sit a few weeks before a hunt, to a "the sky is falling, your bedding and barrel are jacked up".

Just wanted to know if leaving it fouled for a few weeks was too long to sit. Trying to avoid cleaning as groups open up after barrel has been stripped down pretty well.

It's a good thing nobody gets carried away.

 

[Shane Lindsey]

I will throw this out there for those that do not clean after shooting. I moved to Virginia a few years ago after living in California. I always cleaned after shooting. I was reading about "leaving it dirty/not cleaning for a few hundred rounds" so thought I would give it a go. Shot the rifle. Put it away dirty. A few months later, I ran a dry patch though it and it was orange. California was dry and Virginia is pretty humid. I clean after range sessions now unless taking the rifle hunting or doing cold bore mapping. DEPENDING how the gun likes it, I either leave it fouled or clean before hunting with it. But don't let it sit long without cleaning back to steel. Fortunately most of mine like to be clean.

For the OP, I think you are fine to leave it dirty a few weeks.

But ultimately you are trying to find repeatability/confidence in your rifle. Sounds like you may question that first shot. Only way to get the answer is cold bore mapping. Gotta shoot it to know. After load dev, I start my cold bore mapping. Clean completely back to bare steel. 1 shot, 3 shot group or until it is fouled/consistent, put rifle up. Do not clean. Next time out 1 shot, 3 shot group, put rifle up. Do not clean. I do this four or five times. I retain the targets and mark the targets and mark the "clean/cold bore", "cold/fouled bore" shots to reference and track later to develop the pattern. Then based on this process, I determine how I will leave the bore before hunting with it. It takes awhile, but it's my method.

I would also add...Do you dry fire before your first shot? I do and I think this has helped bring in my cold bore into the group.

 

[emp1953]

I have a SIG940shr in .270win. A freshly cleaned cold barrel hits within 2" of zero at 200 yds. After that one shot all subsequent shots are less then an inch. I can live with the difference, but I'm glad that I went through the exercise, just so I know. That all being said, I never go into a deer stand with a cleaned barrel. At least one fouling shot has gone through it.

 

[keithcandler]

After a good cleaning, my rifle takes 10 or so rounds to get good and fouled and shoot. Is that a cold bore or clean bore issue?

I didnt clean at all between my last trip and still threw 1st shot high.

Shooting where I want it at 800 yards with a warm barrel and about 40 rounds since last cleaning. This is my last range trip before a hunt in 2 weeks.

Do I run a wet patch or two through it? Or just leave it? Hate to have a question in my mind about a clean vs fouled poi shift.

Any reason to not just put it in the safe fouled?

I would order a new barrel immediately, I have been shooting Benchrest and hunting rifles for 50 years and have never seen this kind of thing.

I have shot Remingtons and custom rifles. First shot after cleaning maybe 1/2" out of the group, but that is about all. Custom barrels shoot to within 3/8" or tighter from point of aim.

I suspect that the shooter may settle down after some shooting, but three cups of coffee prior to going to the range can jack a guy up.

When ever a barrel starts acting squirly, time for a new barrel. Barrel makers are subject to what ever the foundry sends them in terms of alloy mix in the barrels. Also, inclusions in the steel often are never spotted with a bore scope. Heat treat on barrel blanks can be helter skelter, but rarely does it come into play with custom barrel makers.

Brux, Bartlein, Krieger, Shilen, Hart, Lilja, Broughton, ABC, Meuller, all make top drawer barrels. Point being, get something that you can have confidence in.

 

[milo-2]

Jesus fellas...its a small clean bore vs fouled POI shift, groups slightly more open when cleaned down to bare steel (not uncommon from what I can tell)...not everything is a bad bedding job or a bad barrel. It's a manners, bighorn/proof barreled action, pillar bedded by Mile High...its a 1/2 minute rifle/load.

Not sure how we got from a question on leaving it fouled vs cleaning to have it sit a few weeks before a hunt, to a "the sky is falling, your bedding and barrel are jacked up".

Just wanted to know if leaving it fouled for a few weeks was too long to sit. Trying to avoid cleaning as groups open up after barrel has been stripped down pretty well.

Every custom barrel I have owned experiences some type of cold bore shot, usually slightly high and right. I don't even look for it anymore and assume it is present, I'll waste a shot before group shooting or zeroing the rifle. But as others stated, if hunting, you need to know what yours is going to do.
IMO, you want to put your rifle away fouled before hunting, eliminate cold clean bore. I have the same issue with clean barrels too, they need some fouling. Unless you have a decent borescope, it is tough to judge just how clean you actually got the barrel.
Different powders foul barrels in differing patterns too, RL 16, H 4895 lay hard carbon down in the first 6" of the bore, and this can be a pain. For me, powders like Varget, other Hodgdon, IMR enduron series seem to foul the muzzle end and are easier to deal with especially from an accuracy standpoint. Fouling on the muzzle end your accuracy will drop off way faster than breech end.
I am not a bore snake fan, but I do think if a guy ran one after a range session while your barrel is warm and removed soft carbon, your cold bore discrepancy would be reduced. Running a jag tipped with a drop of boretech C4 through once home would do the same, not cleaning technically, just get loose crap out of the barrel. Drop of Kroil on a jag patch may help too. Either way, no matter what you, that is your baseline until you clean.
I don't see the need to complicate this either, it is your rifle, so your job to understand what will happen. Some barrels are easy, some a giant pain that end up coming around and being sweet, you have a minimum of 1200 into yours, make it work.

 

[Coyote_Hunter]

I will throw this out there for those that do not clean after shooting. I moved to Virginia a few years ago after living in California. I always cleaned after shooting. I was reading about "leaving it dirty/not cleaning for a few hundred rounds" so thought I would give it a go. Shot the rifle. Put it away dirty. A few months later, I ran a dry patch though it and it was orange. California was dry and Virginia is pretty humid.
...

You make a good point about humidity. When I was a kid growing up in Iowa, I' cleen my .22 a lot. Living on the Colorado plains where the humidity is usually very low, I've never had a rust problem. As a result I rarely clean the barrels, but I do give all firearms a good oil or silicone wipe down after using them.