CO Elk Hunting and Loss of Freedom

[CogburnR]

The "travel plan" has been in effect for a while.

If you contact the forest service for the area you hunt they will send you the maps.

I don't like the travel plan more for the camping rule and shutting off trails for trucks. This year we are going to have to move camp for the third year in a row because of the camping rule. The old camp that we had for 20 years and the camp after that is on the wrong side of the road ...you can camp on the other side. They are now logging and stacking logs on our last camp site so we are moving again. Some pretty major roads are now shut down to any travel.

I live in South Dakota and the Black Hills National Forest was about the last National Forest to limit atv's There are atv roads all over and you can't even get near a campground because it is full of ATV'ers. The drive down the road and some don't have drivers licenses(too young) or vehicle licenses which are required here and many go wherever they want. One kid went off the road and over the fence(hooked the shoulder) in front of me while I was driving down the hiway...I picked him up and drove him to his campground following his Dad and Sister. The kid had barbwire cuts all over his chest and was going to the hospital but the kid was only about 12 and no way had a drivers license and none of the atv's had plates on them. This kid was leading the way about 40mph down a major hiway over 10 miles away from his camp with no plates or license and underage to drive!

One time I went elk hunting where there were 200 elk on the one mountain in the unit on friday and on opening day there were idiots riding ATV's right through their bedding grounds holding loaded uncased rifles nowhere near a trail. Out of the 200 elk the night before there were 2 elk shot and 40 hunters on the mountain. There wer no roads on that mountain and all the few logging trails were shut off and had mounds of dirt and rocks to keep people out. I still came across one pickup driving around up there!

 

[uller]

I for one believe this is a step in the right direction. the human race has proven time and time again that we will not "self police" anything and that the idiots will continue to run roughshod over everything we hold dear. including million year old forests.

I do feel for the hunters that do truly NEED an ATV to access any areas to hunt. I emphasize the word need, as my brother swears he NEEDS his atv to hunt and what he really needs is to lose 100 lbs and start walking farther then the fridge for another beer. Being able to walk down a mountain trail isn't a bad thing.

I certainly would rather wake up to the sounds of the mountain and not some two stroke motor screaming down a trail.

Tread Lightly and let yourself be amazed by what you see. Our National forests are truly awe inspiring.

 

[25 Otter]

I for one believe this is a step in the right direction. the human race has proven time and time again that we will not "self police" anything and that the idiots will continue to run roughshod over everything we hold dear. including million year old forests.

I do feel for the hunters that do truly NEED an ATV to access any areas to hunt. I emphasize the word need, as my brother swears he NEEDS his atv to hunt and what he really needs is to lose 100 lbs and start walking farther then the fridge for another beer. Being able to walk down a mountain trail isn't a bad thing.

I certainly would rather wake up to the sounds of the mountain and not some two stroke motor screaming down a trail.

Tread Lightly and let yourself be amazed by what you see. Our National forests are truly awe inspiring.

Well put. As I mentioned in an earlier post,I have asthma. It did compromise things a bit. Especially when the going got quite steep,and over 10,500 ft. Still, I wanted to experiance the mountains on their terms. It was hard to leave them. Our National Forests are awe inspiring indeed. Treasures to protect and enjoy.

 

[uller]

Otter thats the spirit, How light did that air feel at 10,500 with ASTHMA.

overcome, adjust, adapt, but don't stop or let something hold you back. Personal Fortitude. That is what America used to stand for.

 

[dogdinger]

Reading through this thread , I detect a lot of "ellitist snobbery". What permaculture said in his last post is right on. If we don't stick together on this issue and police our own ranks it wont be long before hunting is a thing only for those rich enough to hire an outfitter, its **** close to that now. The anti's are very good at the divide and conquer technique. You see it all the time in the bowhunting community...IE: compound shooters hate recurve shooters who hate the longbow shooters and they all hate the dredded crossbow shooters. Just look at the crap we all take from anyone on any other site about taking these "unethical" long shots, (like 500 yds). Derek01; this road closure thing is happening all over CO, and elsewhere. If you feel strong enough in your convictions, you should join the Blue Ribbon Coalition and help stop this. BigNgreen said it right early on in this thread " Most of this is just a land grab in the name of multi use or as one sign put it "to enhance my non motorized experience". Another reason they closed off a lot of roads in that particular area was because of the gunnison sage grouse. The greenies have decided that this is an endangered species and have been trying for years to get it listed as such. They almost succeeded last year. If that had happened it would have closed down every road in the gunnison valley and here in the northern San Luis valley. I agree with whoever said it, there is enough roadless , wilderness land for all of you muscled up youngsters with lungs like greyhounds to use , and stay away from any whiff of gasoline, or sound of an internal combustion engine, so go there to do your hunting, and leave the ones who want to use an atv to retrieve game to their access.
I hate to see discrimination in any form, and one of my pet peeves for yrs when it comes to national forest access has been the use of horses anywhere but don't you dare take a motorcycle there. I know that will get your dander up colo cowboy, but just remember this...... There were just as many motorcycles as there were horses on the north American continent when Columbus landed here. AJ

 

[strombeckj]

The problem in Colorado is not the hunters using the ATV's it's everyone else. If you have spent time on these roads you would see the erosion that has taken place over the years and you would also witness ATV's being driven where there are no trails. So many sour apples have caused such grief for those who do follow the rules. I have seen ATV's drive to the top of where I hunt on a closed road, drop off a hunter and then drive back down in the dark. While I will walk an hour and a half and cover 1500 vertical feet. The elk are on top and the lazy SOB's need to break the rules to get there. I could use an ATV and do the same thing, I chose not too.

I don't make the rules and don't have to agree with them.... But I also don't break them.

There are areas in Colorado for everyone to hunt no matter how you chose to access it. I personally notice more Elk in areas that are off limits to motorized options, so I hunt there for now. Someday when my legs give out I may need to think about other options.

Jon

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

Down here in SW Co, almost the whole San Juan NF is leased for cattle grazing in the summer(except the wilderness areas). All the lease owners fence their leases and have for years. Lots of roads going everywhere, most not made by ohv'ers, but used by them. Now the FS wants to close most of them. All of a sudden they are concerned about these roads that have been there since the leasing began...don't make a lot of sense to me. Fences, man made reservoirs for cattle and the roads, next is the cows! I still have a problem with the MT bikes and motorcyles using the hiking trails. Anyone who says they don't cause damage too is only kidding themselve...take a look.

I have 2 atv's and they are used only to transport us to near the area we want to hunt. We stay on existing roads with one exception....retrieving downed animals. We only do this during the middle of the day, not in prime hunting times. I have seen people (not all were hunters) who were going where they pleased off road. I also have reported it to the FS, but their take was they really didn't have the time or resources to do anything about it. If I wanted to make a citizens arrest, that was fine. Sad situation! These are the fools that give all of a bad reputation. Rant finished!!!

 

[dogdinger]

My late mother and father in law used to love to fish the high mtn lakes here in Co. There was one lake in particular they loved to fish called pomeroy lake in the collegiate peaks range. there was a well used mining road that drove right to the lake, albeit a rough SOB, it was a road. The FS in their infinite wisdom decided to close the road one half mile below the lake. OK, 1/2 mile, no problem. My inlaws were both in their late 60's but in good shape. so they walked the last 1/2 mile. well as if to spite them, the FS closed the road 1 1/2 miles away the next yr. mind you this is @ 11000 ft elevation. well that was to much. they never fished there again, and the road is still there!!!!!
You folks that love your wilderness experience are just fine with me, but dont close roads where there is a 150yrs of historic use just to keep you from hearing my bike (or snowmobile, or ATV)

 

[Boss Hoss]

Edited

 

[bigngreen]

Yes we should stick together---I am putting together a letter to support what Uncle is doing right now to prevent damage to the forest. Since the area around my friends cabin was made a wilderness area the amount and quality of the game had increased! I support it 101% because there are too many goobers on the put puts that just ride around to see what they can scare up.

Wait till the wolves move in and no one can access anything to control them, then you'll have ZERO wildlife. I hunt wilderness and roadless areas a lot and now they are devoid of game, the elk are all down on the bottoms in private or in subdivisions. They are making a predator corridor not an awesome place to get back in and hunt some wild country!!

 

[permaculture]

Reading through this thread , I detect a lot of "ellitist snobbery". What permaculture said in his last post is right on.J

Thank you

A similar thing happened back in Massachusetts in the early 90's. A number of groups wanted ATVs/dirt bikes banned from the state forests (not parks which were already banned) in Mass. The mountain bikers agreed that the dirt bikes should be banned, only to then have to defend their own use of parks like the Middlesex Fells Reservation and others.

Look what has already started in Colorado:

1. Pike Forest between Colorado Springs and Sedalia is closed to recreational shooting
2. A number of other areas are under attack in CO according to the latest NRA-ILA report
3. Roads being closed to ATVs

Those who are after our freedoms are patient and can slowly chip away at them. My family consumes raw unpasteurized milk. In some states, you can't legally purchase raw milk. In Colorado, we have to own part of the cow in order to be able to access the milk. Milk - something people have consumed for 1000s of years. There are 100s of other examples of freedoms being taken away bit by bit.

 

[Coyboy]

Rules are Rules and Idiots will always break them.

Most times No one is there to enforce them.

Some of the worst violators are the residence of CO. I seen, on 3 ocasions this season, residence leaving the motorized trails to; retrieve game and collect firewood. Saying you only leave the trails to collect game is still a violation regaurdless of the time of day.

No one likes to tie up 2 men for 2 days packing out an animal shot in the "hell hole" but thats tough ****, you shot it go get it the legal way.

I've been in the collegiate peaks wilderness, and the flat top wilderness plenty of times on foot, and once on horses, Ive seen motocross boys run right thru it above Aspen, eletist principal, they can do no wrong.

I've also hunted areas where the roads are too narrow/hazardous for truck traffic and atvs have a place there, i've even used them, but for some reason some morron will ruin that area by starting new trails and then the other rats will follow.

The best way to stop it is create a law with teeth; 25 yards off of any established/marked truck/atv trail and the wheeler is confiscated. no exceptions.

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

Better check your facts CoyBoy...retrieving game offroad is not always illegal. it depends on the area and the rules they adopted. Down here there was such a fuss made over the new proposed rules that the FS replaced the District Supervisor and restudied their plan. Game retrieval is now legal up to one mile offroad! Every district proposed their own version of the new policy which are not uniform. Lots of differences depending on conditions in each district.

 

[Coyboy]

Better check your facts CoyBoy...retrieving game offroad is not always illegal. it depends on the area and the rules they adopted. Down here there was such a fuss made over the new proposed rules that the FS replaced the District Supervisor and restudied their plan. Game retrieval is now legal up to one mile offroad! Every district proposed their own version of the new policy which are not uniform. Lots of differences depending on conditions in each district.

Is that more typical on BLM lands or national forest?

sorry first I've heard of this.