broad head and field point issues

Discussion in 'Bowhunting' started by foreign, Sep 21, 2009.

  1. foreign

    foreign Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    423
    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2008
    ive just started bow hunting, well target practice, and was trying out my broad heads and found that they have a different POI to my field points. the 30yrd pin has to be used to get the same POI as the field points on the 20yrd pin.
    and the broad heads are a little right too.
    i can hit a 4 inch target from 20yrds around 90% so i dont think its me. but what could be causing this.
    both heads weight the same +- 3 grains
    bow sambar spur @ 65lbs 28"draw
    help please.....
     
  2. blipelt

    blipelt Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,018
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2008
    Often your broadheads fly different then you field points. Even some expandable do. I am assuming you are using fixed blade. The thing most do is practice with practice blade broadheads.

    Brent
     

  3. ejones338

    ejones338 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    145
    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2009
    Every time I have ever purchased a new bow I have had to try different broadheads until I found the ones that flew to the same point of impact as my fieldpoints. Unfortunately this can be costly. If you don't want to spend the $, adjust the sights and sacrifice a couple of your broadheads to practice.

    When hunting season gets close I stick to shooting broadheads anyway and just buy a new target every so often.
     
  4. foreign

    foreign Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    423
    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2008
    hmm i was wondering if this was going to be the case. the broad heads just make such a mess if the target and you have to unscrew them each time you want to pull them out. gets anoying. over here we have no seasons. well for duck hunting we do but that doesnt apply. so looks like ill be shooting broad heads all the time. or just shoot for grouping and leave it sighted for broad heads and just have the field points hit else where. problem is i dont want to try shoot unnies with broad heads sine that will become expensive quickly. already managed to robin hood an arrow. that was a $13 loss. grrrrrrr expensive sport
     
  5. blipelt

    blipelt Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,018
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2008
    My field points fly the same as my Barracuda expandables(100gr). I think Crimson talon makes them. I also have practice arrows. The only time I shoot a target with my hunting arrows is to make sure they fly the same. I use different aim points when doing this so I don't robin hood them. Yeah at $125 a dozen for arrows and $20+ for 3 broadheads it is expensive.


    Brent
     
  6. lamiglas

    lamiglas Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    603
    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2008
    if your arrow has the correct spine, your inserts were turned until glue was dry, and your bow is tuned, you should be able to get the two to shoot the same. usually by fine tuning your rest. with a little work i have gotten my last 3 bows to shoot the same. i shoot 100 grain 3 blade muzzy's.

    I am almost certain, a proshop could solve your problem.

    also, muzzys come with a set of practice blades, and these can be shot into a bale of hay. they remove very easily. good luck and hope this helped.
     
  7. old_heli_logger

    old_heli_logger Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    356
    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2006
  8. cstilt

    cstilt Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    98
    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2009
    One bit of advice that helped my broadhead accuracy was the use arrows with a helical fletching. Straight fletched arrows didn't have enough stablity in flight and caused my arrows to veer off in flight. Once I began fletching my own arrows with an offset my groups became much better, and my Thunderhead 100's hit to the same POI as my practice tips out to 70 yards.

    I also take the time to paper tune my bow as well as true my broadheads. By truing I mean I spin them while taking note of if the tip of the broadhead moves. If it does, i heat the glue and gently press the broadhead until it remains centered. Its like measuring if your handloads are concentric, but for arrows. This is important because the blades act as fletchings on the front of your arrow. Despite having slots cut in them, they still are affected by air.
     
  9. Ol'Gator

    Ol'Gator Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    145
    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2005
    When field points and broadheads group differently its usually because the bow isn't properly tuned. Several good sources for tuning bows out there. If your form isn't correct, field points will be more forgiving as well.

    Going to expandables because they "shoot better" than broadheads, demonstrates that the bow in in need of someone knowledgeable about tuning your bow.

    I wouldn't put too much importance in paper tuning. Rather, become familiar with walk back tuning. Much more effective step in tuning your bow. A lot of help available by asking on either ArcheryTalk or Bowsite websites.
     
  10. blipelt

    blipelt Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,018
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2008
    Could someone fill me in with this. With the limited knowledge I have in areodynamics it seems difficult to tune a broadhead to shoot the same as a field point. As far as someone not knowing how to tune my bow this is the guy who is in our archery shop and tunes my bow and makes my arrows since I am a firm believer in letting someone smarter than me do it: Jon Eide, Mathews ProStaff

    Brent
     
  11. Ol'Gator

    Ol'Gator Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    145
    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2005
    To start make sure the arrows are capable of accurate flight. Spin test each one with broadheads attached. Any with the slightest wobble should not be used when doing any testing. Once you know the arrows are ready and you know there is no fletching contact with the rest or string move on to tuning the bow.

    To learn how to use walk back tuning do a google search. Quite a few different places explain this procedure. Also, keep in mine your form must be good to accomplish this tuning. Torquing, peeking and anything other than a smooth release will effect your outcome.

    Well tuned arrows shot through a well tuned bows will group field point with broadheads.
     
  12. Frogman77

    Frogman77 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    154
    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2009
    Here ya go. This should occupy your time for the next 2 weeks :)

    There's more to bow tuning and tuning your arrows, but if you get that far into it you should be competing :)

    I've been competing and hunting with a bow for several years mostly with two cam bows and hybrids. If you're shooting a binary cam I'm not the best resource but I can find out the information for you.

    This is my method for tuning: Warning, it gets involved...First things first is your FORM period.... make sure you're anchoring the same, and holding your bow hand, shoulder grip everything must be the same way exactly the same every time you shoot. Otherwise you'll just end up pulling your hair out. Small things like different pressure on the bow hand will alter your impact greatly.

    1. Make sure the arrow selected is properly spined with the proper tip. Generally 100gr to 125 gr will work just fine. I prefer 125 because it gives a better Front of Center percentage. This is important for broadhead steering. Cut the arrow to length where it will spine correctly for your draw weight and poundage. you can find this using an arrow program like Archers advantage or ontarget2. both are very good, ontarget is cheaper.

    also squaring the ends of your arrows and inserts is important. If you spin your broadheads on a table it should not wobble. if it does you need to either square the ends of the shaft or try a different broadhead in the pack.

    2. MAke sure you're not getting any fletch contact when your shooting. Shoot into a bale 5 yards away, spray yoru fletching with foot powder and see if you're getting any contact anywhere. You can paper tune as well to get a quick starting point.

    3. Find your dynamic centershot: the best way to do this is called walkback tuning. (Get all your pins lined up in a straight line on your sight and make all your adjustments moving the whole cage) start at 10yards and get your zero dead on. move back to 20 shoot another group. walk back to 30, 40, 60..as far as you can shoot accurately. DO NOT MAKE ANY ADJUSTMENTS TO YOUR SIght AS YOU WALK BACK. If your shots are drifting to the right as you get further from your target move your rest to the left 1/32". Go back to 10 yards rezero your entire sight and repeat the process. If they drift to the left with distance move your rest to the right. ALWAYS MOVE IN SMALL INCREMENTS. 1/32" MAY NOT SEEM LIKE A LOT BUT IT CAN MAKE BIG IMPACT CHANGES. once you have all your shots dead on out to as far as you can shoot, your centershot is set. Don't move it.

    4. If you're shooting a two cam bow you can creep tune. You can do it with binaries but I'm not as experienced with binaries. One cam bows you can't really creep tune. If you're interested in the procedure send me a pm. The long and short of it is basically to make sure your cams are in time.

    5. Now you can start shooting your broadheads: Before you start, number each arrow on the fletching. start at 20 yards.



    Take arrow number one fire with field tip. note the impact. Walk down retrieve arrow number one and put the broadhead on. Fire with broadhead. note the impact, retreive arrow and repeat 3 times. (If it impacts in a few different places then you most likely have a form issue, something is not being repeated the same way. probably in the bow hand where your hand contacts the bow. Broadheads amplify form irregularities) If it impacts in the same place, that is good. take the the arrow with the broadhead and turn the nock to a different cock vane. Fire again. note the impact. Keep rotating cock vane until your poi with broadhead is the same as your field tip at 20 yards. for an arrow with 3 vanes you have a total of 6 nock positions. Don't forget to flip it 180 degrees and use those rotations as well. One of these position should get you close if not dead on left/right with your field tips. If the best you can get is dead center but just high or just low this is ok as well, we'll get to that later.

    repeat this with all your arrows until they all or most impact to the same as field tips or just high or just low. (side note once you find an arrow broadhead combo, number the arrow and broadhead and use them together. IF you can't get a broadhead to group with the rest, try switching broadheads...I haven't found that this really works too often but it can)

    If you find that when Shoot all your arrows with broadheads and If they consitently impact in the same place. That is good. If they're all low, then raise your rest up 1/32" at a time until they impact to the same place your field tips do.. you will have to rezero your field tips each time you move your rest. If they're impacting high lower your rest 1/32" at a time.

    If they're just off to the left or right you can move your rest in the direction you want your broadheads to go again in 1/32" till they impact with your field tips, however if you do that check your walk back tuning again with field tips. If it threw it off put the centershot back to where it was. You might have to just discard that arrrow or try a different combo head/nock.

    once your good at 20 yards. Repeat your groups at 40 yards and beyond if you can.


    This is just the method I use and it is involved and time consuming but I know that once completed my bow and arrow tune is as best it can be. Be aware small changes in your form and inconsistencies will be magnified with broadheads, mechanical or fixed. I can change my vertical impact with field tips or broadheads just by changing the amount of heel pressure I put on the bow.

    consistency is the goal.

    You can accomplish most of the above by bareshaft tuning as well. Be forewarned Bareshaft tuning is not easy and your form must be rock solid. If you want some more info on bareshaft tuning let me know.

    Hope that helps.
     
  13. japple

    japple Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    157
    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2009
    I am a tournament shooter and have been working in a pro shop for going on 4 years. the previous post was a very good explanation of walk back tuning. that being said I beleive you said that your broad head was hitting low of your feild points. this is a nock set issue. if your broadheads hit low move your nock set or loop on the string down a 1/32 of an inch at a time until the broadheads come up into the group of feild points. moving the nock set changes the launch angle of the arrow. do the opposite if you rbroadheads are hitting high. if you have any questions hit me up with a pm.
    hope this helps
    John
     
  14. RBetts

    RBetts Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    103
    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2009
    I shoot 100grn field tips and 90grn 4blade muzzys Rather than screw with my tune. They shoot to the same POI out to 65 yds. The weight forward balance of a broadhead is different than the short field point. Everything I have shot at to date with that set up has landed in the freezer. I have had 3 different other brand broadheads fail on game. 2 mechanicals lose blades and a fixed blade shatter the ferrule on a shoulder joint.
    Have not seen a muzzy fail yet