Best bullet weight for 300rum

Discussion in 'The Basics, Starting Out' started by joel0407, Jan 10, 2009.

  1. joel0407

    joel0407 Well-Known Member

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    Ok I have been punching some numbers here.
    JBM - Calculations - Trajectory
    and I'm struggling to work out why I should use anything heavier than a 150 grainer.

    I'm not a physicist but I'll try anything once.

    Due the fact that as the bullet gets heavier the speed gets lower I end up with less energy.

    Since the barnes TSX retains most if not all of its weight as it passes through the target animal. Doesn't this mean all the energy will be transfered to the target until the bullet eventually stops.

    I understand that I heavier bullet penitrate more but concidering that the surface area of the bullet is .3". The only resistance is the frontal area of the bullet. To calculate how far anything will travel I would have thought the formula would be something like energy minus resistance irrelivant of weight.

    Anyway.

    130 grain, muzzle vel 3700 ft/sec = 1000 meters vel 1205 ft/sec = 419 ft/lbs
    150 grain, muzzle vel 3450 ft/sec = 1000 meters vel 1395 ft/sec = 648 ft/lbs
    168 grain, muzzle vel 3350 ft/sec = 1000 meters vel 1249 ft/sec = 582 ft/lbs
    200 grain, muzzle vel 2950 ft/sec = 1000 meters vel 1136 ft/sec = 573 ft/lbs

    And as far as I can tell it's all down hill from there.

    The 150 grainer also has the shortest flight time.

    I have had a little experience with formulas for vehicle accidents and skid distances calculating speed. The formulas used for this don't consider the weight of the vehicle but the friction increases in line with weight due to gravity but this obviously isn't a consideration in bullet penitration.

    Anyway thoughts please.:cool:
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2009
  2. RockyMtnMT

    RockyMtnMT Official LRH Sponsor

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    I'm not sure if your velocities are quite right. Out of a 300rum you should be able to run a 200g Accubond @ 3150fps or so. You should be able to push the 180g E-tip to about 3400fps.

    Here is my calcs. from JBM @ my elevation 3000ft:

    180 E-tip @ 1000yrds
    muzzle vel= 3400fps
    -19moa drop
    5.3moa wind
    1860fps
    1382 ft lbs

    200 Accubond @ 1000yrds
    muzzle vel= 3150fps
    21.3moa drop
    5.1moa wind
    1824fps
    1478 ft lbs

    It is at about a 1000yrds that the Accubond starts to out run the E-tip. So depending on how far you plan to shoot, I would choose the 180 E-tip.

    Steve
     

  3. 300rum

    300rum Well-Known Member

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    hi joel,

    you forget the wind!
    past 500yrds for 300 rem ultra mag bullets you have to calculate the wind deviation.
     
  4. joel0407

    joel0407 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry mate, I'm only quoting velocities from ADI powder loads.

    I'm about halfway there saving for a Sendero II in the 300rum with a JP brake, I should be ordering in about a month or so. I'm just working out what I'll be loading. My next post will be deciding on what power Night Force scope.
     
  5. Michael Eichele

    Michael Eichele Well-Known Member

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    Yeah your numbers are VERY conservitive. You can safely get 3100-3200 FPS out of a 200 grainer. Sierra game king is .560 on the BC and the 200 AB is .588. These will offer around 1300 FPE at 1000 yards in standaard air conditions. I am getting 3000 FPS with a 220 SMK and at 1K offers 1400 FPE with its mean BC of .630. The 180 AB I am getting 3300+ FPS. This is getting me over 1050 FPE at 1K. The 150's are only offering me less than 800 FPE at 1K. You question why use anything more than the 150's? Most would question why use anything less than a 180-200 in this cartridge. 30 cal 150's with their low sectional densities arent well suited for long range elk or moose. The 180's and 200's+ are very well suited as well as their energy levels are 1.5-1.75 times higher than the 150's. These of course are real word results here not "paper" ballistics.
     
  6. J E Custom

    J E Custom Well-Known Member

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    jOEL

    I think your velocitys are a little slow also but keep in mind that velocity is not everything.

    Wind drift and long range trajectory depend a lot on ballistic coefiecent for optimum
    performance so I would also recomend 180 to 200gr bullets for all around performance.
    in the big 300RUM.

    Run the tables out to 2000 yards and I think you will see the trend of heaver bullets.

    If you were shooting a 308 then the 150 to 170gr bullets would be correct.

    Also at the point of impact the heaver bullet has more momentum to achieve better
    penetration and expansion.

    I allways like to look at the required energy to bring down the game to be hunted ( I know
    that taylor knock out values are just a guide line ) but it's a place to start.

    Example: A white tail deer . 1000 ft/lbs of energy is recomended (not required ) an elk would
    be 1500 to 2000ft/lbs . so I look at the maximum distance the round will acheave that energy
    with minimum trajectory and wind drift . That gives me something to start with as far as
    bullet weight.

    I hope this helped
    J E CUSTOM
     
  7. Coyoter

    Coyoter Well-Known Member

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    As posted, it's not so much about flight time and drop as it is wind bucking ability. Drop is pretty easy to compensate for, just plug your distance and such into a ballistics program along with all the other required fields and put in your clicks. Windage is not an exact science though. It's a best guess based on wind speed and direction where you are and what speed and direction you think it is down range. The higher the BC, the less effect your miss-guess has on the impact point. For fun, check the impact difference between a 15 mph full value cross wind and a 12 mph cross wind from 2 O'clock. Run that test on several different bullets and you'll see what I mean. Lighter bullets can realize twice the effect of a heavier, high BC bullet.
    All that said, I'm falling all over myself to take my new 208gr Hornady A-Max bullets and try them in my 300 Wby when the snow melts!

    Coyoter
     
  8. Buffalobob

    Buffalobob Writers Guild

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    A collision between two vehicles and a bullet and a deer are the same. One calculates the momentum of each body before impact and then calculates the energy loses from object deformation during impact and then recalculates the momentum after impact.
     
  9. joel0407

    joel0407 Well-Known Member

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    So wind aside, the 150 grain bullet should have the best knock down ability since it has the most energy at the 1000m mark.
     
  10. RockyMtnMT

    RockyMtnMT Official LRH Sponsor

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    joel,

    Go back to the JBM Calculations and try it again. Use muzzle velocities out of a loading manual for bullet weights. Use the bullet selections that are programed into the calculator and check it again. The heavier the bullets get the harder they hit at 1000yrds out of the 300 rum. I'll go try it again myself, and if I come up w/ something different I'll re-post.:D

    Steve
     
  11. joel0407

    joel0407 Well-Known Member

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    I did use a reloading manual ADI's Smokeless Powders Handloaders Guide and bullet pre programed

    I'm guessing you have a long barrel Steve. The fastest I can find a 180 grainer in ADI, Nosler or Barnes reloading is 3300 not 3400 that you quote.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2009
  12. joel0407

    joel0407 Well-Known Member

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    Dam I just typed this huge post with all my results from different bullets, weights and speeds.....then I hit the back button by accident.

    Any way I found b.c has a lot to do with the end figure at 1000 yard. Nothing comes close to the Nosler AccuBond 180 Grainer at 3300 ft/s.

    I could'nt find any 200 grainer that would come close.

    I got better results when I entered the b.c manually than using the preprogram, stuff
     
  13. Michael Eichele

    Michael Eichele Well-Known Member

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    Hugh????????????????????????


    Try the 200 AB at 3200 (.588 BC) Also try the 208 AMAX at 3100-3150 (.649 BC)
     
  14. joel0407

    joel0407 Well-Known Member

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    Yeh right, I'm finding it's all down to b.c.