Berger 180 gr VLD not looking good in the Sendero

[Browninglover1]

I think he means the bullet would be seated so far out that it would not have enough of the bullet in the neck to hold onto.

 

[liltank]

I think he means the bullet would be seated so far out that it would not have enough of the bullet in the neck to hold onto.

I'm saying .120" into the case, not the lands. There should be plenty of room to move the bullet .120" deep into the neck.

Tank

 

[Browninglover1]

I'm saying .120" into the case, not the lands. There should be plenty of room to move the bullet .120" deep into the neck.

Tank

Now that makes sense, his response a few posts back is what confused me. I think he was telling us that if he had the bullet .120" off the lands that the bullet would not be deep enough in the case.

However, sinking the bullet .120" into the case and not worrying about his jump to the lands makes more sense to me now. Sorry I misread your first post.

 

[liltank]

Now that makes sense, his response a few posts back is what confused me. I think he was telling us that if he had the bullet .120" off the lands that the bullet would not be deep enough in the case.

However, sinking the bullet .120" into the case and not worrying about his jump to the lands makes more sense to me now. Sorry I misread your first post.

That's cool. Glad I could clarify.

Tank

 

[Nimrodmar10]

Tank
Gothcha, finally. There shouldn't be any problem seating the bullet deeper in the case. I'm currently loading a COL of 3.665" to just barely fit into the magazine. The book list the 7 RUM max lenght as 3. 600" so I can seat it deeper. The only problem I can see is that the secant of the Berger 180 VLD is near the front of the case neck already and the base of the bullet is into the case neck so far that the boattail is already into the case below the case neck. But at this point I'll try it.
I had hoped to use the 180 VLDs but I may have to back up to the 168 VLD. Berger told me that the 180 might not stabilize in the Sendereo with it's 1 in 9.5 twist. They recommend a maximun twist of 1 in 9.

 

[rscott5028]

No offense to the OP.

But, I question whether you are even measuring correctly.

Perhaps it's possible that Remington chambered/throated/freebored your rifle or a batch of them different from others?

What you describe has not been a problem for me or others with Senderos.

I would fully expect to be able to seat a 180 Berger in a 7RM Sendero far enough out to touch the lands and still have enough neck contact/tension on the shannk to hold the bullet.

It may be too long in some rifles to fit in the magazine. But, even this has not been a problem for me.

I would sure be interested in seeing a measurement with a Hornady OAL gauge using the 180 Berger and perhaps a chamber cast using Cerrosafe. Because if what you're experiencing is true, then either (a) Remington has Q/A issues, (b) Remington has changed reamer designs from time to time, or (c) someone erroded or modified the chamber/throat.

How did you determine your OAL to reach the lands?

-- richard

 

[rscott5028]

Nimrodmar10,

Again, that's not meant to be cheeky or condescending. I'm just trying to learn something about tolerances or unspoken design changes in factory rifles.

thanks!
Richard

 

[Browninglover1]

I actually was having the same thought as Richard that maybe Remington really screwed up on the throat or maybe he bought the gun used and the barrel has just been shot out.

There is always the possibility too that maybe he's measuring the LTL wrong cause we've all made easy mistakes like that before!

 

[Nimrodmar10]

The way I measured it was to close the bolt with an empty chamber insert a cleaning rod with a flat jag inserted into the barrel until it contacted the bolt face. I then marked the cleaning rod at the end of the barrel. I then opened the bolt and inserted the Berger 180 gr. VLD into the chamber until it contacted the rifling. While holding the bullet in place I inserted the cleaning rod again and marked the cleaning rod again. I removed the rod and measured the distance between the two marks. I don't remember off-hand what the measurement was but I do remember that it was over 4". I realize this is not precise to one thousandth but it told me I could never reach the rifling with a bullet. Maybe my technique or math is wrong. But the way I figured it was if my bullet was loaded to a COAL of 3.665" then the minimum I would have to move the bullet out was .335". The bore diameter part of the bullet was seated to the base of the case neck, which is only .284" long. I've only been reloading for 41 years so I'm still learning. Maybe I'm missing something here. If so let me know.

I bought the gun new last Thursday. The only rounds through it have been the 90 I've fired breaking in the barreland trying to find a load it likes.

 

[rscott5028]

Like you said, it's not the most accurate way to measure.
But, it should tell you what you need to know.
-- richard

 

[DanMan]

My 7RUM also has a 9.5 twist factory barrel. I shoot the 180 VLD and tried coals from 3.650 out to 3.665 which just barely fits the mag. All have shot under 1 moa
with the best around .5 moa when I do my part. I settled on the longest coal 3.665 over 87.1 gr retumbo with fed 215.
I assume that you have already checked the rifle for something else that could be making problems. ( crown, bedding, et. ) maybe just the harmonics of the gun.

 

[Nimrodmar10]

Y'all got my curiosity up so I went back and measured my LTL again hoping I made a mistake. Unfortunately I came up with the same conclusion. The CAOL would have to be 4.137" to touch the lands. By the photo below you can see my problem. To get the length I need the only part of the bullet inside the case would be the boattail.
What I think I'll do is seat the bullet to a COAL of 3.900" and try it. That will put. 284" of bore diameter bullet inside the neck to support the bullet. That will be .237 off the lands. It won't fit the magazine but I can single load. If need be I can move the bullet out .020" at a time until the groups improve or the bullet gets shakey in the neck. What do you guys think, am I headed in the right direction?

 

[rscott5028]

Y'all got my curiosity up so I went back and measured my LTL again hoping I made a mistake. Unfortunately I came up with the same conclusion. The CAOL would have to be 4.137" to touch the lands. By the photo below you can see my problem. To get the length I need the only part of the bullet inside the case would be the boattail.
What I think I'll do is seat the bullet to a COAL of 3.900" and try it. That will put. 284" of bore diameter bullet inside the neck to support the bullet. That will be .237 off the lands. It won't fit the magazine but I can single load. If need be I can move the bullet out .020" at a time until the groups improve or the bullet gets shakey in the neck. What do you guys think, am I headed in the right direction?

I think you're going about it right because you don't have much choice until you change bullets.

But, I am curious about the chamber/neck/throat/freebore.

thanks,
richard

 

[Rocky Mountain]

Most factory Rems have a 1-9.5 twist which is a bit slow for the 180 berger VLD a 1.9 of faster is beter.