Berger 115 VLDs Meplats

[Buffalobob]

I was finishing loading up the last of my antelope bullets for this Fall and had to go and open a new box of Berger 6mm 115 gr VLDs. These bullets were in the new orange box so I was admiring the box and the way the orange reflected light caused the bullets to look different. So I took one out and looked at the bullet and it still looked different. The more I looked, the more things looked strange. I had no unloaded old bullets left but I could compare the meplats by eyeball.

First thing is the lot number of the old bullets was 0361500 and the lot number of the new bullets was 0000585.

Every old bullet had an open meplat that was actually an opening. Every new bullet had the meplat totally closed and there was a bur on each and every meplat. Even more peculiarly, each nose had tool marks on it like some one had taken a pair of pliers and squeezed the meplat closed. Without taking a lot of time I could not determine if some of the meplats were truly out of alignment from the squeezing but it certainly is starting to worry me.

I have searched the main benchrest forums and can find no information on this particular bullet that would indicate Berger made a change. Does anyone know what is going on with the Berger mepalts and this particular bullet.

 

[Fiftydriver]

Richard Graves has been having a hell of a time with the new Berger Jackets, the reason, they are inconsistant in hardness and often to hard I believe.

The results is that you get pressure folds in the ogive which is what your seeing in the Berger bullets made off the same jackets. In all honesty, this will probably not effect accuracy much but cosmetically it does not look nice.

As far as the meplats, if your using them on game, I would recommend getting a meplate uniformer and opening them up, espeically for pronghorns or they will be **** near through the critter before they start to open up much.

Kirby Allen(50)

 

[BountyHunter]

1. the orange box signifies a berger "hunting" bullet versus match (yellow box) bullet. Berger is now saying that the match bullets can be used for hunting.

2. Go to BRcentral and PM Eric Stecker, who is an engineer and defacto spokesperson for Berger on BRcentral.

BH

 

[eddybo]

BB,
Have you had any problems with blow ups with the new lot?

I had an older lot that shot great as long as I kept the velocity reasonable. With the new lots that I have I get a boomerang shaped hole one out of ten shots even keeping velocity below 2950.

 

[hogslayer]

Buffalo Bob what speed or you getting with the 115,s in your 240, and what or the specs on your barrel.

 

[Buffalobob]

I have a 30 inch Spencer barrel with an 8 twist 6 groove. It has a minimum SAAMI chamber and is throated for the 105-107 VLD but likes the Berger 115 jammed.

I do not have a chorongraph so I just claim to shoot faster than the people who believe their 6-06 or 6-284 is fast. If I told you how fast it is then I wouldn't be able to tell big lies about it anymore.

As best I can tell, the velocity is something like 3275 fps if the BC of the bullet is exactly what Berger claims and that matches up with my measured drops very well to 1000 yards. If the BC is less than claimed then my vleocites are over 3300fps.

I have not shot any of the new batch of Bergers and I have had no problems with bullets blowing up but the barrel is still young and I don't let it get hot.

 

[sscoyote]

I have some of lot # 857 that look fine. Used them on 2 doe antelope last season out of a Savage Striker 243 WSSM 8 twist Broughton started at 2525 mv. Shots were @ 330 and 420 thru lungs, with quarter size exit wounds on both--good performance i thought. 2020 fps, and 1040 ft.lbs. impact velocity, and energy on the 420 yarder.

 

[Eric Stecker]

From Berger

First, I want to thank Buffalobob for tracking me down and making me aware of this forum. Long range hunting huh? Sounds like fun to me.

Anyways, I will ad this forum to my lists and lurk around from time to time to see if anyone needs help that I can provide.

Regarding the situation on this thread, the 6mm 115 gr VLD that have a closed looking hollow point are the result of jackets that had to be washed more than once. We make bullets in California and the rules about cleaning solvents are clear. No solvents. We have to use water with particular types of soap. Then we have to deal with the brilliant California legislature who created a law that says the water we use must be returned to the drain in a cleaner condition than when it came out of the tap. That's right I said cleaner than their own city tap water.

This compels us to use processes that are sensitive. From time to time these soapy water handling processes don't work properly and we are forced to rewash jackets (and/or bullets). In this case the jackets used to make the 6mm 115 gr VLD were washed more than once resulting in the mouth (pinch trimmed) developing a small flattened burr. This burr is what fills up the hollow point. If you take a needle or one end of the staple you will see that it is easily pushed aside. You do not need to push this burr aside on every bullet as it will have no affect on trajectory, accuracy or expansion.

The tooling mark you are reffering to is the other side of the burr rolling down the jacket as the bullet is forming in the ogive die. It is the slug mark that is left behind when the burr is washed away as the jackets are cleaned (hopefully once). This mark also has no affect on trajectory, accuracy or expansion. It is the unavoidable result of the challenge we face in dealing with the controls over our cleaning processes.

Let me be clear that we know exactly what you are refering to and this does not have any negative affect. If it did we would not have allowed the bullets to leave our shop.

I hope this helps and I will be checking in from time to time to see if I can assist when it is appropriate to do so.

Regards,
Eric Stecker
Berger Bullets

 

[Eric Stecker]

Orange boxes

1. the orange box signifies a berger "hunting" bullet versus match (yellow box) bullet. Berger is now saying that the match bullets can be used for hunting.

BH

For the sake of clarity, the orange boxes are meant to educate shooters that our Match VLD are also good for use as a hunting bullet. They are the same Match bullets that came in the yellow boxes. In fact we have just ran out of the orange boxes and will be going back to the yellow.

We have not changed the bullets in any way to be better for hunting. They just happen to work really well on big game.

Regards,
Eric

 

[Buffalobob]

Eric

Welcome to Longrange Hunting. As you can see we do some different kinds of things than most hunters and we appreciate high BC accurate bullets that perfom well.

I and a few others really enjoyed your discussion of Berger BC calculations on Benchrest Central. It was a shame that some people have to turn everything into an antagonistic argument and did so on that thread.

Thank you for the response to my question. That was most interesting being as I spent nearly three decades enforcing the Federal and state Clean Water Acts. I am very well aware of the problem of which you speak and feel for you. The issue of intake credits and existing pollutants requires a revision fo the Federal Act. There has not been a major revision of the Federal Water pollution Contol Act in twenty years and the water quality problems we face now are greatly different than those of yesteryear. Unfortunantly, the only tool in the tool box is a hammer and when you need to saw a board all you have is a hammer, so all you can do is pound on the board. The last major thing I did before retiring went all the way to the Supreme Court where they ruled against me and said the law was the law and good engineering was no substitute for the law.

We will be stuck with the old law as long as people and politicians are unwilling to do what is best of the country as a whole. Somewhere there is middle ground but there are not enough people who are willing to meet in the middle.

In no way do I apologize for doing what is best for the fish in the rivers, but the water quality problems of today are just so much more complicated than what was envisioned when the Act was drafted and it needs major revisions to help us all (including the fish and Berger Bullets).

Jim

 

[Jimm]

Eric you said

"We make bullets in California and the rules about cleaning solvents are clear. No solvents."

Move to Arkansas , we like solvents here . Some even make their own ..... and drink it .

Welcome to LRH !

Jim B