In shooting my 300 SAUM with 185 and 175 gr Berger VLDs, an entire ladder test and every group shot was purely horizontal in nature. There was absolutely no vertical displacement. Aside from the shooter, ME, what else could be the cause? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif Bullets were jammed 0.005" into the lands. FWIW, shooting the 190 and 175 VLDs in my 300 WM with nice little cloverleafs!