Belted vs. non-belted for accuracy.

[Capt RB]

I search with Google and add the name of the site at the end like this.

Google search string: belted magnum accuracy - longrangehunting

I believe this is they same method the older search function that was removed worked. Good luck.

Another google method is site;longranghunting.com 215 berger in 30-06. I read those threads at least once a year

 

[Deleted member 46119]

Sadly, everyone blames the belt on their problems, but half the time it's a poorly cut chamber, and the other half is lack of knowledge of die setup for belted mags. And honestly, since belted mags mainly headspace off the belt, neck-sizing them once they're fire-formed to your chamber really helps to alleviate having issues.

I don't know about the "everyone" part but the rest has merit.

You may not like it but the belt adds one more thing to keep track of.

 

[Deleted member 46119]

I'm honestly surprised that new case development hasn't involved just removing the belt from the tried and true magnums. 7 mag, 264 win mag, etc. Why reinvent the wheel? If the belt is the issue, just retool to produce without the belt.

xx-Nosler.

 

[MudRunner2005]

I don't know about the "everyone" part but the rest has merit.

You may not like it but the belt adds one more thing to keep track of.

Fred, you're right in that it does add another thing to watch and keep track of, but at the same time, the learning curve is not really that steep. Just takes a bit of practice.

I can tell you one thing I'll just about guarantee people don't realize can cause HUGE issues in belted cartridges...Using brass that was shot previously in anther chamber. One of the biggest things I can advise anyone new to belted cases, is start with brand new high-quality brass like Nosler/Norma/RWS. Also, neck-sizing fire-formed brass that was formed in your chamber, helps avoid issues as well.

 

[machoking]

xx-Nosler.

I'm not talking about taking a 404 Jeffery and necking it down. Just shave the belt off the belted cases. The only issue I have with the belted mags is the cracks that you get above the belt. I usually use a paper clip and run it along the inside to check for the internal erosion.

 

[Deleted member 46119]

Fred, you're right in that it does add another thing to watch and keep track of, but at the same time, the learning curve is not really that steep. Just takes a bit of practice.

I absolutely agree.

You description of how to reload belted cartridges is my procedure.

Avoid full length sizing and if you do anneal the neck and shoulder so you are not compressing the case at the neck.

 

[Deleted member 46119]

I'm not talking about taking a 404 Jeffery and necking it down. Just shave the belt off the belted cases. The only issue I have with the belted mags is the cracks that you get above the belt. I usually use a paper clip and run it along the inside to check for the internal erosion.

Ahhh,

Interesting point. A 300 WinMag with out the belt. A 7mm RemMag without the belt. A 264 RemMag without the belt. A Weatherby without the belt.

Done so the only "beneficial" change is no belt.

For the shooter and handloader removing the belt:

• removes the "problem" of excessive expansion above the belt stopping chambering
• case wall thickness differential at the belt creating a stress difference in sizing, causes head separation

It does not mean you get to skip annealing (haha)

For the wildcatter removing the belt means that more accurate shoulder forming is required.

We already know with the 585HE based cases from @hubel458 that the belt can be removed.

Since I don't know how belted cases are made in the forming process, I can't comment on the benefit to the manufacturer for not making the belt. Some rifle maker+ammunition maker would need to take this on to make it fly. If I were a commercial maker I would not do this unless there was some "perceived" benefit that could be market hyped to create sales.

In order to create hyped sales there needs to appear to be more benefit than just removing the belt. The 300WSM/SAUM/RCM and relatives were created to have the case capacity/power of a 300WM in a short action. The XX-Nosler creates the case capacity of a 300 Weatherby without a belt and fits a "standard" long action magazine.

 

[Deleted member 46119]

From the picture you can see that without the belt the rim sticks out about .018.

This is not really a good thing.

 

[Deleted member 46119]

Fixing the base diameter to match the rim diameter and what we get is...

375 Ruger/416 Ruger.

A 300/375 Ruger has more capacity than a 300WM, a 30 Nosler has more still.

 

[Deleted member 46119]

With the rim narrowed to the same as the base of a 300WM.

Now we would have the problem of a new bolt face dimension.

 

[machoking]

View attachment 90314

Fixing the base diameter to match the rim diameter and what we get is...

375 Ruger/416 Ruger.

A 300/375 Ruger has more capacity than a 300WM, a 30 Nosler has more still.

Yes, and the beautiful thing about the 300/375 Ruger is that it will feed from regular old magnum actions without alteration. The 7 LRM is a great chambering, too bad the only brass available is Hornady. I'd rather shoot that than the rebated rim Nosler/SAUM/WSM offerings.

 

[J E Custom]

[QUOTE

Since I don't know how belted cases are made in the forming process, I can't comment on the benefit to the manufacturer for not making the belt. Some rifle maker+ammunition maker would need to take this on to make it fly. If I were a commercial maker I would not do this unless there was some "perceived" benefit that could be market hyped to create sales.



Belted cases are formed the same way as non belted cases except with a different set/size of forming punches.
https://www.petersoncartridge.com/our-process/drawing-brass

Like them or not, they offer extra strength at the back of the case and around the web.

The main advantage of the non belted case to the cartridge maker is less brass is needed to produce a non belted case. As discussed, It does not effect accuracy if proper loading procedures are followed. The one thing often over looked is that a wildcat based on a belted case is very easy to fire form (No seating the bullet long, or using corn meal with reduced charges)Load powder charges mid range for the parent cases and fire.

J E CUSTOM

 

[Deleted member 46119]

The one thing often over looked is that a wildcat based on a belted case is very easy to fire form (No seating the bullet long, or using corn meal with reduced charges)Load powder charges mid range for the parent cases and fire.

Yup.

 

[Deleted member 46119]

So...

There is no accuracy difference.

There are a couple more things to check on during the loading/reloading process
Annealing.
Not FL sizing to specification but rather neck or FL sizing to .002 below your chamber length.
Watching out for case stretch just above the belt.