belted cartridges

[436]

Yeah, I think you're wrong...

Any belted case is easier to fire form into something else, because of the belt. If it's headspacing at the back of the case, it allows you to simplify the whole fire forming process. Why you think Roy used them and left them on there?

Belted magnum cases have a manufacturing tolerance in the order of .003" , I believe.
I also believe non belted cases have a headspace tolerance in the realm of .008".

Belted magnum cases DO NOT come from the factory headspaced off the shoulder. It's a good .016" back on that dimension, in most cases.
Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

You don't have to head down any rabbit hole, but I would hardly consider it hair splitting.
We can get back to enjoying the discussion now. That's about all I got on it anyway.

Fare enough, you check into at your end, and I'll check at mine... This is turning into "Tomato or Tamotoe"... good luck. Cheers. Oh, wait I did see something that might interest you.

There are many great cartridges in its class, but Roy Weatherby's flagship .300 remains one of Boddington's favorites.
It's probably not inappropriate that, sometimes these days, I feel old. That's a natural and unavoidable progression, but I like it less when I feel that I'm becoming obsolete! Like, for instance, when I tell folks I'm shooting a .300 Weatherby Magnum and they look at me like I have at least three heads.

True enough, the case design is no longer "modern." Based on the full-length .300 H&H case with body taper removed, the case length of 2.825 inches requires a .375 H&H-length action. It has Roy Weatherby's distinctive double-radius shoulder which, to my knowledge has never been proven to have any real advantage. On the other hand, it also hasn't been proven to do any harm. Like all Weatherby cartridges, the .300 has a belted case, which we all know to be just about as old-fashioned as me! Come to think of it, and if you really want to be old-fashioned, there are no flies on the parent cartridge, the .300 H&H . . . but it's so uncommon today that I won't try to make an argument for it.

 

[Gord0]

Has anyone looked at the pictures the OP posted? They don't really look like fire cracking to me, they look more like carbon buildup. Scrub that bore with some JB, or losso and see what it looks like after.

 

[trhall]

I'm 100% sure the federal government and 99.9% of the MIC doesn't reload their own ammo. The only exception being the AMU (and other similar military units of each branch) for competitions and testing.

You're dead wrong on that! I hope you don't go all in on everything in life that you have absolutely no knowledge of. Are you also an "expert" on vascular surgery?

 

[jlvandersnick]

Has anyone looked at the pictures the OP posted? They don't really look like fire cracking to me, they look more like carbon buildup. Scrub that bore with some JB, or losso and see what it looks like after.

I am sure willing to give that a try.
What about the one that looks like a parallel crack in the rifleling light at the muzzle?

 

[MudRunner2005]

You're dead wrong on that! I hope you don't go all in on everything in life that you have absolutely no knowledge of. Are you also an "expert" on vascular surgery?

Nope, surely am not a surgeon of anything.

If the federal government loaded their own ammo, why would they have long-standing contracts with Federal/Lake City? Why would the military and LEA's get fresh-packaged boxes of brand new ammo? Even for their training. And why don't they pickup their brass after a fire-fight? And why does military ranges and LEA ranges sell their once-fired brass to people like my old boss, when I ran the ammo plant for his machine gun range...? Seems to me if they were reloading it themselves, they would just keep it.

 

[436]

Not to get in the middle of this pancake bakeoff... but, I pretty sure the Military and many LEO Dept's specs-out their ammo to the manufacturers, not saying that some smaller special units don't still reload "particular" ammo they want to keep under the radar because they do. That's kinda why the manufactures do so many ammo demos every year for LEO & Military. Oop's... Sorry I didn't catch one of the words before sending.

 

[trhall]

Not to get in the middle of this pancake bakeoff... but, I pretty sure the Military and many LEO Dept's specs-out their ammo to the manufacturers, not saying that some smaller special units don't still reload practical ammo they want to keep under the radar because they do. That's kinda why the manufactures do so many ammo demos every year for LEO & Military.

That's exactly right. I sure as hell was not suggesting that they re-load EVERYTHING!

 

[MudRunner2005]

That's exactly right. I sure as hell was not suggesting that they re-load EVERYTHING!

Then how was I "dead wrong"... I even stated that the exception being some special units do reload their own ammo, and some departments also do it for testing purposes.

He literally said the exact same thing I did, just different words.

 

[aushunter1]

This ^^^
I just neck size mine for the first three firings. The FL size and bump the shoulder back .002. Then shoot and bump until the primer pocket gets loose.

Im not a belted magnum owner but do have a WSM.
In my readings over the years which is fairly limited I am under the impression that headspacing is done from the belt & not as it is for bottle neck cartridges which I think turns some people off?
So I guess my question is how do you measure the headspacing from the belt & with what & how do you set up the dies accordingly??

Just interested

Also on a side note a lot of the USA's military ammo is make in Australia by ADI Thales.
This could be mainly .223/.308 though?

 

[Gregg C]

Im not a belted magnum owner but do have a WSM.
In my readings over the years which is fairly limited I am under the impression that headspacing is done from the belt & not as it is for bottle neck cartridges which I think turns some people off?
So I guess my question is how do you measure the headspacing from the belt & with what & how do you set up the dies accordingly??

Just interested

Also on a side note a lot of the USA's military ammo is make in Australia by ADI Thales.
This could be mainly .223/.308 though?

Not a gunsmith. I may be off base here, but I believe the " headspace gauge" for a belted cartridge could more accurately be called a " belt space gauge". It does the same thing in that it locates the chamber in relation to the bolt face. If I understand this correctly, if the gauge is properly spaced, the chamber is correct. Must be go and no go gauges, for the belt, I mean. I'm also under the impression that some 'smiths fore go the expense of the gauges, and simply run the reamer into the barrel till the bolt closes on a case. Problem with that is, one could easily get the chamber too long, in effect, too much headspace. In the other direction, cutting till the bolt barely closes, in order to "short chamber" can cause problems, too. The belt on the case isn't machined, therefore the tolerances are pretty wide. So the bolt might close on some cases, but not on others. Happened to me. I chose to lapp my bolt till the chamber would close on all of my brass rather than return my rifle to a smith I was unhappy with. But that created another problem...primary extraction became in inadequate. As far as properly setting up dies, fire one round. That is your datum line control, just as if the cartridge had no belt. Adjust accordingly. Hope I got that out right.

 

[trhall]

Then how was I "dead wrong"... I even stated that the exception being some special units do reload their own ammo, and some departments also do it for testing purposes.

He literally said the exact same thing I did, just different words.

Whatever, go back to being the keyboard legend you think you are, genius.

 

[Mike AVM]

I've had one partial case head separation on a 300 WM. Of course it occurred right where the pressure ring forms, belt or no.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Whatever, go back to being the keyboard legend you think you are, genius.

I will, thank you for noticing.

 

[Mike 338]

Biggest downside to belted magnum cases that I see, are that Lapua doesn't make them and availability from other makers can be spotty at times.