bear point of aim?

Discussion in 'Bear Hunting' started by EastHunter, Feb 11, 2009.

  1. EastHunter

    EastHunter Well-Known Member

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    Hi everyone.

    Aim the lung is my modo. Just whant to know if more experience hunter have a other preference. Y will be hunting black bear on bait with a 444mar(265gr interlock)of a friend or my 270win(150gr partition) depending of my feeling of the day!!!
     
  2. FEENIX

    FEENIX Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    Heart/lung!
     

  3. Akbushape

    Akbushape Active Member

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    Feenix, thats a very good anatomical picture of a black bear. The best shot on any bear is through the shoulder. Either gun will work fine on black bear,
    especially if you are hunting a bait. The 444 is a good short range choice but
    they fall off fast on longer shots.
     
  4. Coyboy

    Coyboy Well-Known Member

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    I have killed one bear so I am no expert, but I was very much into shot placement before the hunt, so as I wouldn't screw my one chance.

    I concluded that the very best broadside aim point was straight up from the center of the front leg. And exactly midway between top and bottom.

    I wouldn't aim specifically for the shoulder, a miss a little high or forward, and the bear is lost. As Fenix said heart lung, gives you a little room for error. If you look at the anatomy pic in Fenix post, it's a pretty simple answer.

    The bear I did shoot was quartering slightly away, but thats hard to notice on a black animal, my bullet went straight above the leg on the in side and broke the shoulder on the out right at the point where the scapula conects to the upper leg bone. went about 5 yards. 280, 140 Nos AB

    I had a buddy shoot one with a 444 in the shoulder(bone), dropped him for about 15 seconds, then he ran off for good. Most guys in WI who lose bears break a shoulder but hit no vitals. The bears usually run off about the time there high fiving there buddy.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2009
  5. Akbushape

    Akbushape Active Member

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    Cowboy, I'm talking centered on the shoulder, not trying to hit the little shoulder bone that sets to the front of the shoulder. If you're aiming center shoulder you have the heart and lungs very close together as well as the possibility of breaking either shoulder if you are off a bit. Most of the time, unless they are lieing down, a bear is moving. You usually do not have a lot of time for benchrest accuracy and to precisely place a shot. If you did and was capable of it then a shot in the neck near the atlas joint would produce an
    instant kill. This is not a realistic goal the vast majority of the time. Under
    real life conditions a centered shoulder shot is reccomended by most bear
    guides.
    I have taken or assisted in the taking of over 400 black bear and around 125
    brown/grizzly bear over the years. Sometimes a black bear will fall to a 30-30, a 243 or some such, making them seem easily killed. Other times I have seen them be unbelievably hard to put down. On one I found a piece of the bears lung lieing on a log where he was first hit with a 7mm RM. We trailed that bear for 6 hours and never saw him agian. I suspect he was hit to far back and just clipped the tip of the lung, but will never know.
    As I said earlier the 444 marlin is an acceptable gun at close range but I would not reccomend it at even 100 yards as being a good black bear gun. The big
    slow bullets pack a lot of knock-down power but lack the penetration needed
    to punch through a good sized bear. You get up into the 300 lb range or larger and you should have a faster bullet. I'd rather see something like the
    7MM RM or 300 WM on the bigger black bears.
    Another thing, when a bear goes down, quickly reload and get the scope back on him and watch him. No high-fiving and celebrating until you know positive he is dead. Cover him and wait and watch. If he starts to get up, or is moving like he still has a lot of life left, shoot again.
    A good bullet with a spire point that will mushroom well and still retain good
    bullet weight is the best to use. I do not like partition bullets because you are
    sure to lose the front portion immediately on impact, which greatly reduces bullet weight which greatly reduces penetration. Hollow points are not good
    either as they will desenigrate to easily. A plain old core-lok spire point bullet
    in 160 to 180 grain will perform well on black bear.
     
  6. Coyboy

    Coyboy Well-Known Member

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    Akbushape, By no means am I cutting on your expertise, after rereading both post It sounds like we are talking about nearly identicle points of aim. The only difference is when I say shoulder I am refering to the scapula or upper leg bone. When you said shoulder I think your refering to the general area of shoulder structure. I understand that my bullet will go through the shoulders muscle structure, My preference is to avoid the bone so I have two holes to track a bear which will be at the end of a short blood trail. No offense.
     
  7. eric2381

    eric2381 Well-Known Member

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    I go for in line with the front leg, one third up. It's always worked well for me. Don't try to hit high shoulder, you could easiy miss high, as my Dad this past spring. Good luck, Eric
     
  8. rtv900

    rtv900 Well-Known Member

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    I have shot two bears over bait. The first time I put the cross hairs on the bear I lost my black cross hairs on the bears body so I shot him in the head. The second time I shot a bear I shot him in the head too. I found it to be very effective. The bullet (30.06) passed through both times with very little fur damage. If I had to do it a third time over bait I would shoot it in the head again. Both of my bears were shot at 25 yards or less.

    You would be hard pressed to find me sitting over bait again. I just don't have the patience.
     
  9. rtv900

    rtv900 Well-Known Member

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    Goodness. 525 bears. I have shot two. You must have some really cool stories. I would love to hear some of them. You should think about writing an article for the forum. Have you done most of your bear hunting in Alaska?
     
  10. Akbushape

    Akbushape Active Member

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    Cowboy, you're right, we are talking the same area. On an animal I think in
    terms of five sections, Head, neck, shoulder, rib section, and hind quarters.
    Shooting a moose , caribou or deer it's best to shoot just behind the shoulder if you want to avoid destroying a lot of meat and still get the boiler room (heart/lung cavity) On bear you do not want to shoot behind the shoulder. If
    you can time your shot for a quartering angle and break down a shoulder as
    well as hit the heart lung area that is your best shot placement, but one does not always have the option to pick and choose a lot. Available time, range,
    terrain, position of the animal and whether the animal is still or moving all play
    into the equation of shot placement. If a bear is coming directly at you at close range obviously a shoulder shot is out of the question. So one cannot say I always do a shoulder shot, or I will do only neck shots etc. You have to do the best shot that fate hands you, and sometimes you don't have a lot of time to ponder the situation. Having said that, in many situations you do have
    time to wait for the optimum shot. When given this chance a shot centered in
    the shoulder section gives one the largest target that has the potential to do the most damage.

    rtv900, at very short range a head shot is a doable thing and like you say it
    puts them down immediately. They drop like they were pole-axed. You don't
    want to do a head shot however if you want to salvage the skull or if it is a
    really big bear that has potential of scoring in the record book. Any bullet hole
    in a bear skull disqualifies that trophy from entry. It's an individual choice.

    Yes, all my hunting has been in Alaska. I guided professionally for 27 years
    and have hunted for about 50 years. I have had some interesting times
    especially with brown bear, but I'm a pretty poor writer and a worse typer.
    And even worse speller. :)
     
  11. Coyboy

    Coyboy Well-Known Member

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    akbushape, well I'm glad you found this site. Welcome, experience like yours is a valuable resource for us youngin's. Keep posting, and don't be afraid to type up stories about ; great hunts, bad hunts, worst client, bad juju hunt, ect.

    I always love reading good stories. Len Backus the owner of the site is always looking for guys to write articles as well, I'm sure he wont mind cleaning up the grammer if neccisary.

    sorry I got off topic.
     
  12. Akbushape

    Akbushape Active Member

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    Thanks Cowboy, thats very kind of you. I might see about writing one up.
    Len may have a lot of work cut out for him though. :)
     
  13. angus-5024

    angus-5024 Well-Known Member

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    my dad shot a 350lbs bore about 4 years ago. he shot high shoulder.. we tracked that thing for 2.5hrs before he got a second into him. i think the .284 win didnt have enough penetration, so now we shoot for the head if its small and close enough. if its to far away or big, we shoot mid shoulder. i have harvested 5 bears in 4 years doing this, but i shoot a .340wby and 300rum.
    just to back up AKBUSHAPE, i know a bear guide and he says the same thing.
     
  14. EastHunter

    EastHunter Well-Known Member

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    Thank all of you for the good advice. The bear will drop hard this spring.