Barrell Life 338 rum vs 300 rum

[Chas1]

Robster, Good point, thanks. What kinda action is a pretty broad question which will get very differing responses. It might be helpful to elaborate a little ie-how much do you want to spend, repeater or not, manufacturer viability etc.
A Remington 700 action worked over by a quality smith is a good choice or you could go custom but, can get pricey.

 

[Chas1]

Chas1, As I stated, The two 338's have considerably more barrel life than the 300 ultramag. The two 338's would be about equal. You can not put a number on how many rounds to wear it out because there are to many other factors involved from barrel manufacturer to the type loads shot in it and a thousand other things. The average shooter will not wear out a 338 ultramag barrel. Hogg wanted to know a comparison, he got the answer.

+1, you scared me for a minute there. I agree the average shooter probably will not wear out a 338 rum barrel.

 

[elkaholic]

I had an 11 twist 3 groove Lilja in 300 RUM and I put close to 2500 rounds through it. I know that sounds high and I'm not saying I didn't lose ANY accuracy but it still shot well when I sold it. You couldn't see that much erosion at the throat? It surprised me.....Rich

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Rich, that sounds incredible. What kind of loads were you shooting through it and did you give it any treatments?

Mark

 

[elkaholic]

Ya, if someone had told me that I would have questioned their math! I was shooting primarily my own bullets, with H-870 and retumbo as the primary powders. The barrel was never hot and I kept it pretty clean. No special treatment except Liljas recommended break in. The rifle shot 1/2-5/8 groups in the beginning and about 3/4" when I sold it. Go figure? I know the 3 groovers are better for wear, but that's a lot from what I've heard.....Rich

 

[jmden]

Since the 338 Rum lags about 100 FPS behind the Edge with the 3oo SMK I'd say that the Rum isn't quite the equall of the Edge . I've alo spent my life in the shooting sports and I'm not buying the "obsolete" tag

Ditto. But I'm sure jwp475 has spent alot more time shooting than I have. LTLR, you have alot of experience, no doubt, and I respect that, but your continued characterizations of the 338's just don't seem to jive with what many others find.

Even Shawn's recent story of his buddy shooting a +P version of the EDGE vs. the EDGE at very long range shows what a few extra fps due to extra hp of a large case can mean. Case size matters, coupled with the correct barrel, just like cubic inches matter in an engine. Yet, you repeatedly seem to indicate that case size doesn't really matter much.

I see your numbers and your experience and realize that my experience is very small compared to yours, but I just don't see too many other folks making the same .338 comparisons that you do. Interesting...

I do see that in your posts in this thread that you give the big Weatherby quite a boost over the RUM and EDGE--that's more than I recall you giving it in the past. I'm just trying to learn here.

 

[FEENIX]

Case size matters, coupled with the correct barrel, just like cubic inches matter in an engine.

Not an expert here, just a big fan and values the resident SMEs and their experiences.

I too agree with the quote above.

AJ Peacock came up in water capacity (in grains) on the following cases for comparison:

338 Allen Mag TTI Brass 172gr (Jamison Brass is 171gr)
338 Edge Remington Brass 118gr
338-378 137gr
338 Rum 111gr
340 WBY 100gr

Below is a nice exchange of info from resident SMEs in the forum that is a very interesting and is a good read, esp. on Kirby and LV velocity discussion:

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/fastest-338-caliber-build-advice-33343/

V/R

Ed

 

[BountyHunter]

Here is an article on a spreadsheet to estimate barrel life from the daily blogs on 6mmbr.

GUN TECH--Barrel Life Estimating Software: Reader MikeCr has created a neat little Excel spreadsheet that predicts accurate barrel life based on powder charge and powder "heat of explosion". Download the file, input your powder charge and the propellant heat index (from the built-in) table, and the spreadsheet will give you a good idea of how much useful life you can get from your barrel, assuming you don't overheat the barrel and that you clean properly. This is a great way to compare one cartridge vs. another. Obviously, this can't be foolproof as many different factors are involved in barrel wear, but it's still a handy reference. Mike notes: "There has been alot of discussion lately related to cartridge design and resulting barrel life. This is a really important factor to consider amongst a myriad of choices. Barrel life is controversial, and subjective. There is no clear cut standards for comparison. But a few years ago, I put together a spreadsheet based on Bart Bobbits' rule of thumb. It worked pretty good, only occasionally failing some tests when validated against posted barrel lives. According to Ken Howell, I had to account for pressure. And Henry Child's Powder temperature testing provided another piece needed. So, I've tweaked it here and there to pass more tests, for calibers from .223 Rem to 300UM." Note: the calculator works best with pressures above 50K psi, and medium to max loads. For low pressure loads, barrel life may be exaggerated.

 

[Moman]

Interesting spread sheet. It's pretty amazing when you set it up for a 300 RUM and change the bullet diameter to .338. Round count goes way up.

 

[jwp475]

Ditto. But I'm sure jwp475 has spent alot more time shooting than I have. LTLR, you have alot of experience, no doubt, and I respect that, but your continued characterizations of the 338's just don't seem to jive with what many others find.

Even Shawn's recent story of his buddy shooting a +P version of the EDGE vs. the EDGE at very long range shows what a few extra fps due to extra hp of a large case can mean. Case size matters, coupled with the correct barrel, just like cubic inches matter in an engine. Yet, you repeatedly seem to indicate that case size doesn't really matter much.

I see your numbers and your experience and realize that my experience is very small compared to yours, but I just don't see too many other folks making the same .338 comparisons that you do. Interesting...

I do see that in your posts in this thread that you give the big Weatherby quite a boost over the RUM and EDGE--that's more than I recall you giving it in the past. I'm just trying to learn here.

The following was posted by LTLR in this thread; http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=225043

Bravo 4, I agree in general with what you are saying and I am on the same page with you. But I have got to look at #3 and 5 closer. I agree a bigger bullet and more power is definitely not the answer to poor marksmanship and a well placed bullet from a 300 ultramag will kill anything in North America. But the massive wound channel of the big 338 can give you a slight edge (no pun intended) with massive tissue or bone destruction and will give you a much better blood trail to follow if the animal doesn't go down right there.

In #5 I agree the animal is just as dead with a well placed shot but they don't go down the same. I mentioned in an earlier post about shooting caribou with the 300 ultramag. They would run 200-400 yards and fall over just as dead but maybe in the water or a terrible place to pack them out. The same shot with my 338-378 and about all you see is the feet flying up in the air and the first thing that hits the ground is the top of their back. In other words let the animal walk to where you want to dress it, then shoot and go dress it there. That really helps in some hunting situations. I have noticed through the years that elk/moose size animals that don't go down right away are in such shock they just hunch up and then fall right there, where with smaller calibers they will take off running or trotting for a few hundred yards then fall over just as dead.

I like to hunt with all my rifles in all the calibers but I have noticed a definite difference when the animal is hit.

Notice that he suggest that a 300 Ultra Mag will not keep a Carribou from running 200 to 400 Yards.


I lived in Alaska for 7 years and I killed a few head of Carribou and never found them any where near that bullet proof. I never had or seen one run that far not even when shot with a revolver

The one that I took in the photo below I shot with a 45 Colt 310 grain LFN hard cast bullet at a muzzle velocity of 1240 FPS and he went no more than 20 yards

 

[Pdvdh]

The following was posted by LTLR in this thread; http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=225043


Notice that he suggest that a 300 Ultra Mag will not keep a Carribou from running 200 to 400 Yards.

I lived in Alaska for 7 years and I killed a few head of Carribou and never found them any where near that bullet proof. I never had or seen one run that far not even when shot with a revolver

The one that I took in the photo below I shot with a 45 Colt 310 grain LFN hard cast bullet at a muzzle velocity of 1240 FPS and he went no more than 20 yards

JWP, you got nothing better to do than find a forum member to argue with? What did LTLR do to tick you off? Tell you your 338 Edge isn't the finest caliber on the face of the earth? How many 338 Edges have you chronographed, and how many 338 RUMs? You demand the facts. Now show us you've collected more chronograph data than LTLR has with these two cartridges. Perhaps you'd rather spend your time searching the Forum for some more LTLR posts in your continuing effort to discredit him. Time for the winter meds? Give it a break...

 

[Topshot]

I had an 11 twist 3 groove Lilja in 300 RUM and I put close to 2500 rounds through it. I know that sounds high and I'm not saying I didn't lose ANY accuracy but it still shot well when I sold it. You couldn't see that much erosion at the throat? It surprised me.....Rich

These 3 groove barrels sound like the answer to throat errosion and extend barrel life. The lands are twice as wide as a 6 groove barrel so it takes longer to wear out the throat. I hear they are easier to clean also.

Seems to be an obvious choice if you wanted to have a 300RUM.

Anyone elso had any long term experience with 3 groove barrels?

 

[MontanaRifleman]

These 3 groove barrels sound like the answer to throat errosion and extend barrel life. The lands are twice as wide as a 6 groove barrel so it takes longer to wear out the throat. I hear they are easier to clean also.

Seems to be an obvious choice if you wanted to have a 300RUM.

Anyone elso had any long term experience with 3 groove barrels?

Topshot, I came accross this thread in a search for info on Nitride treatment of bores. It has a good discusssion on 3 groove barrels - the plus's and minus's and some other very good info as well. Having said that, I am leaning to the 3 groove Lijas for any rebarrels I may do...

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/musings-barrel-life-21085/index2.html

 

[elkaholic]

I have a 3 groove lilja on my 6.5 Sherman currently, but I've only fired about 700 rounds thru it so the jury is still out? I have heard that a 3 groover with too small a bore is not good because the wide lands are too hard on jackets. By too small, I mean .224's......Rich