Barrel Twist?

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by CarRamRod, Jan 27, 2009.

  1. CarRamRod

    CarRamRod Member

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    So I've been a member here for a whopping 30 mins and have already found a lot of great help. I was looking to build a long range rifle this year and really like the Savage 308 as a base. I've read a lot of good on the Savage especially the AccuTrigger but have read a lot on barrels ant the twists or turning and I'm not sure which is better. I've seen like 1:8, 1:10 and 1:12 most commonly and was wondering which is better or if one is better for something than the other. I was planning on a Savage 308 with a composite thumb hole stock and a Bushnell Elite 4200 8-32x40mm scope to start off with but was wondering if I would really need a new barrel. I've read that the Savage barrel is good of your only shooting like 300 yards but not sure how true that is.
    Thanks
     
  2. Michael Eichele

    Michael Eichele Well-Known Member

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    1st off welcome!

    2nd, as far as twists, it depends on the bullets you want to shoot. My preference in the 308 is 12x for 150-180 grain pills. 12 will also stabilize the 190's but isnt optimum. 11.25 is perfect for the 180-210 variety and is a sweet spot for the 190's. I have also had phenominal results with the 155's and 150's with the 11.25 twist at slower velocities like around 2750-2800. 10x is for really heavy bullets. Any bullet requiring a 10x is really too heavy for the 308 (IMHO). 308's are most optimum with 150-190 grain bullets. Again, my humble opinion.

    3rd, as far as a savage barrel only being good to 300 yards is not true. It will depend on any given barrel's accuracy potential. Obviously if any barrel only yields 1.5 MOA then 300 yards would be about all it could handle. A barrel capable of 1/2 MOA would shoot much more than 300 yards. It all depends on a given barrel. Most savage 308's do fairly well as do the remingtons. Either in 308 should get you to 600+ even for a factory rig.

    Hope that helps!
     

  3. CarRamRod

    CarRamRod Member

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    Thanks, it definatly does.
     
  4. johnnyk

    johnnyk Well-Known Member

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    CarRamRod,
    I don't have alot of experience with the .308Win so I won't comment on that. Savage rifles I have experience with. I have owned two 110FP's in the past (7mmRM and .223Rem) and both were sub 1/2" rifles. I shot a few .1's with the .223, but it mostly ran in the .2's. The Savage 7mm I got rid of because I already had a 7mm Sendero and didn't want the aggrevation of separating brass. I did minimal load development with it, but it shot 1/2".
    I currently have a 112BVSS in .300WinMag and two days ago I shot a 1.7" (3shot) group at 300yds and a 3.6" group at 560yds. Yeah, they shoot.
    I wouldn't worry about swapping the barrel out till I had shot it first. It may take a few rounds to get the roughness outta the barrel. Do a proper break-in and things should come around quickly and the barrel will settle down and commence to shooting. JohnnyK.
     
  5. trebark

    trebark Well-Known Member

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    CarRamRod:
    You've gotten some good advice on your rifle of choice and I won't argue with it. I will caution you on your scope choice though. According to the Bushnell website (Bushnell Outdoor Products) this scope only has 20moa total adjustment. Your 308 will need somewhere in the neighborhood of 40moa 'up' to reach 1k. Even if you use a canted base this scope will not have enough adjustment to be able to shoot long range.

    In the alternative, Bushnell makes an inexpensive scope that has 100moa Bushnell Outdoor Products. Use a 30moa canted base with this scope and you can reach past 1k.

    If you've got money to spend though, there are lots of good scopes out there that will do the job well....Nightforce, Sightron, Leupold....on and on and on.
     
  6. BountyHunter

    BountyHunter Writers Guild

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    I would not buy a custom barrel right now. There are a lot of used savage 308s for sale on the internet here and and www.savageshooters.com. You can buy complete guns, actions and barrels to make your own righ now very easily.

    As of now, I would lean towards the 1-12 for one reason. It will shoot the 175 SMK which has been the go to bullet for years. However, the new Sierra 155 Palma is a new bullet that shoots in the 1-12 very good and shoots with much less drop and wind as compared to the 175.

    a 308 at 1k normally needs 37-40 MOA elevation so plan on a scope with at least 60 MOA of elevation and a 20 MOA base like the farrel or others or use the burris signature rings with the 20 MOA inserts.

    BH
     
  7. NesikaChad

    NesikaChad Well-Known Member

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  8. CarRamRod

    CarRamRod Member

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    What is MOA? Does it just account for the bullet drop? I also hear a lot about the Remmington 700 but I've been told to go with the Savage because its got the accutrigger. Is one better than the other? Sorry I don't know a lot I'm just getting into it, thanks for all the help.
     
  9. CarRamRod

    CarRamRod Member

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    Will that scope have enough magnification? I've been seeing people talking about huge optics in like the 20s or 30s for 1000 yard shots and I may not go quite that far yet but as I've never attempted a shot to these distances I'm not real sure.
    Thanks
     
  10. trebark

    trebark Well-Known Member

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    MOA = minute of angle. It is a unit of measurement. As you look at scope specifications you will see that most have 1/4moa ("click") adjustments. At 100 yards, 1moa = 1.047 inches. So a 'click' of the scope is about 1/4" inch. As the distance goes farther 1moa changes. For instance at 200 yards 1moa = 2.094" (2x1.047) at 300 1moa = 3.141 (3x1.047) at 1000 yards 1moa = 10.47". (given that .047" is so small, it is generally accepted that 1moa=1" at 100 yards and so on)

    So let's say for instance you shot a target at 200 yards and your shot was 3" high and 1" right. I would tell you to adjust your scope 1.5moa down and .5moa left. Since 1moa at 200=2" that would means 1.5moa=3" and .5moa= 1"....make sense?

    For shooting long range you will not 'hold-over' on the target. You will dial the scope up to compensate for the drop at that distance. For instance, a .308 zeroed at 100 yards will drop 380 to 400 inches at 1k. Since 1moa at 1000 = 10" you divide the 400 by 10 and you get 40moa. That's how much adjustment 'up' you will need in order to shoot 1k. So you can see that a scope with 20moa total adjustment just won't reach that far.

    To resolve this issue, you want a scope with 60 or more moa total adjustment and then you want a 20 or 30moa canted base (one where the rear is 20 to 30moa higher than the front). With this set-up your 100 yard zero will be at about 10-15moa from the bottom of your scope adjustment. This leaves you with 45-50moa 'up'. In the case of my scope where I have a 30moa base and a scope with 80moa I have about 60moa 'up' from my 100 yard zero. This set-up will shoot beyond 1k.

    In terms of magnification, I have no problem shooting 1k with a ten power scope. The conventional wisdom is to use a higher magnification. It's a choice that's up to you. Personally the scope I chose has sufficient magnification to shoot 1k, it has great target knobs for easy adjustment, it has a mil-dot reticle and it didn't cost a fortune (you can spend a lot...and I mean a lot...of money on a scope if you want). I didn't make my decision blindly. The scope on my 308 was reviewed on this website...Low Priced Long Range Scopes

    A friend of mine is looking for a new scope for his 300mag. His intent is to hunt elk at long range. He doesn't have a ton of money, so he's found a good balance of dollars (~$500) and performance with this scope....Sightron Riflescopes / Binoculars / Sighting Scopes product pages. SII Series - Big Sky - SIIB SS 4.5-14x44 MD

    Remington vs. Savage...that's an issue that will be debated forever. Personally, I have remingtons and I have friends with savages. I find that the answer to which is better is up to you.

    Here are some pics and specs on my .280....http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f53/my-280-a-32771/ It is a good example of a rifle that will hunt in the woods (up close and personal) and make a long shot.