Barrel break in accuracy

[WildRose]

After doing the break in and getting a load to print good groups, does your rifle require a couple of fouling shots after a cleaning? I have some rifles that don't and one - a custom that requires 2 fouling shots before settling in. Is there a fixable reason for this?

In my experience to reach best accuracy in the field they all need 1-3 foulers.

Each shot you fire changes the interior of the bore so it's hard to get consistency with cold bore shots on a completely clean bore unless you're going to at least swab and blow it out after each shot.

 

[Shawn Carverelli]

If you remove the copper more often you'll probably extend your barrel life by a good bit.

It doesn't have to be done with most barrels every time you clean but if you ever get a rough barrel not removing the copper regularly is going to become a very large problem as depositing a good bit of it in the lands and grooves with every shot builds up a significant amout of copper and carbon both since the carbon gets trapped under the copper with every shot.

Very few people will ever be as negligent in cleaning their rifles as I was for decades and it cost me several barrels that had to be replaced long before they would have if I'd been doing a better job all along.

I'm still not the least bit anal or obsessive about it, but I at least now try to give them all a good cleaning every year or so no matter how much they get shot and I no longer let my speed burners like the Swift and .204 Ruger go more than fifty rounds between at least getting wet swabbed and running a brush through it a few times them blowing out the rest with Berryman's before going back to piling up PD's.

I had a nice rem700 vssf in 220 swift..<.5 moa @100 yards. I year i tried to match little brother shot for shot at the PD killing fields in S Dakota.
He had a .223 AR. Ya, after 4-500 rounds, that SS barrel was toast. Too hot to touch for one count. Lesson learned

 

[Shawn Carverelli]

In my experience to reach best accuracy in the field they all need 1-3 foulers.

Each shot you fire changes the interior of the bore so it's hard to get consistency with cold bore shots on a completely clean bore unless you're going to at least swab and blow it out after each shot.

you're right already. Not sure why it is but NEVER go on a hunt after just cleaning the bore without re checking zero after a few fouler shots. That's a given!

 

[nksmfamjp]

With cartridges like the 25/06, I often worked up "best load" within 20 shots, MAX, and often within 12 shots.

Does that include fireforming? How?

Hart told me that same thing, that their barrels don't need a break-in period, so we'll see. I know the factory barrel needed a good hundred rounds they it, followed by 5 hours of cleaning with Butch's bore shine and Montana extreme before it shot anywhere close to good.

Poor comparison. Yea for any measure of accuracy there is little to no value. Especially hunting where 0.4" at 100…is good.

A new barrel needs a break in such as; 1st 10 shots, clean after each shot. 2nd 10 shots, clean after every 3 shots, 3rd 10 shots clean after each 5 shots.
It should be ready then for accuracy testing.

Please cite evidence….Many Benchrest shooters have completely stopped break in. Same with F class. In a world where barrels burn out, wasted rounds down them are a waste. Erik Cortina made a video stating this, too.

I'd stay away from hammers.

Any reason for that?

 

[WildRose]

Are we still talking about barrel break-in cleaning? You think carbon fouling is caked on after say 5-10 shots? My reference to using a plastic bore brush is so you don't mistake copper fouling color on the patches when it might be from a bronze brush...but woe be it for me to tell YOU how to clean your own rifle barrel. After all, it's yours...

do as you wish

Either way he's correct 1 shot or a 1,000 shots the bullet is going to deposit exponentially more copper than the bore brush.

Is it enough to matter after ten shots? If you have a rough bore it could but as a great gunsmith once told me you don't really want to get all of the copper out of a really rough barrel since that's what's going to smooth out those pits and gouges. It's either that or additional lapping.

Once those pits and sharp edges and gouges are smoothed out you suddenly get an increase in velocity and more often than not that's when groups will start tightening up very nicely.

 

[WildRose]

you're right already. Not sure why it is but NEVER go on a hunt after just cleaning the bore without re checking zero after a few fouler shots. That's a given!

Well if you think of your bore as a topo map, each shot after a through cleaning is going to change the topography. It seems though that things will settle down after 1-3 shots on just about any of them that don't have some serious issues.

 

[WildRose]

I had a nice rem700 vssf in 220 swift..<.5 moa @100 yards. I year i tried to match little brother shot for shot at the PD killing fields in S Dakota.
He had a .223 AR. Ya, after 4-500 rounds, that SS barrel was toast. Too hot to touch for one count. Lesson learned

Ok, that's funny, I have the VSSFII Swift.

The first job I took after getting out of the service the first time was on a sixty section ranch near Portales NM.

I was hired to kill predators, varmints and as many PD's as possible.

Even swabbing after every ten shots and doing a pretty fair cleaning every fifty and not shooting them hot, I still managed to shoot out 3 barrels in six months.

I was shooting the PD's for 3.00/hd because to poison them was running about 6.00 using anhydrous ammonia and two of his hands had been seriously injured mishandling the anhydrous.

Our deal was he bought the equipment including the rifles, ammo and reloading gear/components and I did the rest.

In six months I made enough to buy a very nice house. I don't think he ever expected anyone could shoot more than 10-20 a day.

I got 50.00 each for the cats and coyotes and I kept the hides. That added up really fast because a good coyote could bring up to 200.00 and the cat's up to 400-500.

If you ever wonder why we have such an overpopulation of predators, there's your answer, the anti fur movement killed trapping and hide hunting.

Heck, when I was a kid we could even get as much as 15.00 for a good Racoon or Ring tailed cat. Foxes 100-150 for a really good hide.

Just for fun, since almost nobody today has ever heard of them.

Texas Ringtailed Cat.

Weird little critter. Like a cross between a coon and a mink or sable. Wonderful thick soft fur.

 

[Shawn Carverelli]

Ok, that's funny, I have the VSSFII Swift.

The first job I took after getting out of the service the first time was on a sixty section ranch near Portales NM.

I was hired to kill predators, varmints and as many PD's as possible.

Even swabbing after every ten shots and doing a pretty fair cleaning every fifty and not shooting them hot, I still managed to shoot out 3 barrels in six months.

I was shooting the PD's for 3.00/hd because to poison them was running about 6.00 using anhydrous ammonia and two of his hands had been seriously injured mishandling the anhydrous.

Our deal was he bought the equipment including the rifles, ammo and reloading gear/components and I did the rest.

In six months I made enough to buy a very nice house. I don't think he ever expected anyone could shoot more than 10-20 a day.

I got 50.00 each for the cats and coyotes and I kept the hides. That added up really fast because a good coyote could bring up to 200.00 and the cat's up to 400-500.

If you ever wonder why we have such an overpopulation of predators, there's your answer, the anti fur movement killed trapping and hide hunting.

Heck, when I was a kid we could even get as much as 15.00 for a good Racoon or Ring tailed cat. Foxes 100-150 for a really good hide.

Just for fun, since almost nobody today has ever heard of them.

View attachment 348036Texas Ringtailed Cat.

Weird little critter. Like a cross between a coon and a mink or sable. Wonderful thick soft fur.

oh man...what a dream job!
My swift is now a 6-284 8 twist 29" lilja 1 1/4" no taper

 

[WildRose]

oh man...what a dream job!
My swift is now a 6-284 8 twist 29" lilja 1 1/4" no taper

As much as I love them and the fact I have at least a thousand rounds of ammo and another thousand of brass I think I'll always have to keep at least one swift.

The next one won't have the heavy Sendero barrel on it though, heck I might even be my first adventure into the land of carbon fiber.

To say the terrain around the new digs in SW Texas is an understatement. For reference part of Big Bend is in our county.

There's a lot of it as steep as any country I've ever seen around the world.

 

[Starlite]

In my experience to reach best accuracy in the field they all need 1-3 foulers.

Each shot you fire changes the interior of the bore so it's hard to get consistency with cold bore shots on a completely clean bore unless you're going to at least swab and blow it out after each shot.

Generally I'd say your 99% accurate on that statement. I've only had 1 factory rifle that had the same POI on shoo 1 and say shot 10. It was a Remington 700 in 6mmCM. Unfortunately it's free bore wasn't suitable for my needs as it wouldn't allow me to shoot Hornady ammunition. If I chambered a round and didn't shoot it, the bullet and power ended up in the chamber
This my also be y it was such a laser beam.

 

[Shawn Carverelli]

As much as I love them and the fact I have at least a thousand rounds of ammo and another thousand of brass I think I'll always have to keep at least one swift.

The next one won't have the heavy Sendero barrel on it though, heck I might even be my first adventure into the land of carbon fiber.

To say the terrain around the new digs in SW Texas is an understatement. For reference part of Big Bend is in our county.

There's a lot of it as steep as any country I've ever seen around the world.

my AR10 in 6 cm is a PR carbon fiber barrel. I bought it for the less weight, but it stays cooler during load development and so far its more accurate than my Kreiger 6.5 cm barrel. I'd buy another..even @ $880

 

[WildRose]

my AR10 in 6 cm is a PR carbon fiber barrel. I bought it for the less weight, but it stays cooler during load development and so far its more accurate than my Kreiger 6.5 cm barrel. I'd buy another..even @ $880

Very nice shooting.

 

[5.56×250]

Generally I'd say your 99% accurate on that statement. I've only had 1 factory rifle that had the same POI on shoo 1 and say shot 10. It was a Remington 700 in 6mmCM. Unfortunately it's free bore wasn't suitable for my needs as it wouldn't allow me to shoot Hornady ammunition. If I chambered a round and didn't shoot it, the bullet and power ended up in the chamber
This my also be y it was such a laser beam.

I only had one rifle that didn't need foulers too. Whether it was some special unknown vudu in the lands or the fact that I didn't know what copper solvent was at the time, it shot same poi cleaned or dirty. Was a Remington 788 carbine in 308 . With Corlok 180s , it would hit the same spot in a 1" dot at 100 yds on the first shot . It was uncanny. 3 shot groups .75 moa w the first shot at 1 o'clock, second at 4 o'clock, and third at 6 o'clock , clean or dirty. I didn't shoot as much back then , but it repeated that feat at least 12 times over a few years of pre season sighting and in season zero verifications. Looking back, it was probably completely fouled and all I did when cleaning was wipe off the last couple rounds of powder residue with hopes no.9, lol.

 

[snox801]

If you haven't jumped the Hammers a bit, give them a running start, say start at .050" off the lands. Or seat them to the first band.

I am actually going through this with a rifle myself. It just has not given me good groups with a few bullets, powder, primer combos yet. Enough that adding up prices on expended components, are about half a barrels worth. And these days that's alot of components $$$.

You will also be able to get more speed that way. I started a few loads at jam minus 5 thou.
As I seated them back I was able to gain some more speed with more powder.
I've found that no less than 20 thou is were to start.