Sully2
Well-Known Member
A plain old fashoned .243 will do what you ask nicely.....75gr to 105 gr slugs that you can purchase anywhere if need be
Advice wanted on rifle calibers
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A plain old fashoned .243 will do what you ask nicely.....75gr to 105 gr slugs that you can purchase anywhere if need be
J E Custom
Well-Known Member
Run The numbers with a 40 grain .223 bullet @ 4500 Ft/sec. My 223 WSSM is currently running
just over that with a 1 in 15 twist, 3 grove Lilja 24" barrel with no signs of pressure.
That would have to be the flattest out to some point.
There are some special needs however if you want this speed. PM me if you have any questions.
J E CUSTOM
Creedmoor shooter
Well-Known Member
J E, is that round hard on barrels? just curious because that thing is screamin! I've heard that its hard on barrels just wanted to hear it from someone who owns one. I'm interested in a 22 cal. Varmint cartridge and i was thinking possibly 223wssm.
But i don't want a cartdidge thats gonna be hard on barrels like that. Let me know what your experience is with that cartridge. Thanks!
Outlaw6.0
Well-Known Member
Yes it is, then again, fast & flat shooting usually= shorter barrel life. As all decisions in life, there will ALWAYS be a trade off.
t
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Deleted member 48126
Guest
At 4500 FPS The bullet doesnt tumble? No key holes in the target? That is ridiculously fast. Also, from the previous posts it looks like 250 AI is the original short magnum! What about something as simple as a 243 (Like sully said)? I dont think you can shoot 70 grain bullets but it is something to consider.
MontanaRifleman
Well-Known Member
This is what I get when running the numbers for 105 gr Hybrid (BC .545) @ 3400 fps and 40 gr Varmint (BC .155) @ 4500 fps.
With 300 zero the 40 gr bullet is 0.3" flatter than the 105
With 400 zero the 105 is 0.9" flatter than the 40
MontanaRifleman
Well-Known Member
More importantly, with 10 mph wind
300 zero drift, 40 - 13.3", 105 - 4.4"
400 zero drift, 40 - 26.2", 105 - 8"
Outlaw6.0
Well-Known Member
Why would they tumble?
Those little pills actually do pretty well. I've had the 40grn Blitzking in excess of 4600fps out of my 22-243. They did just fine.
In a factory 243 you can shoot anything from 55grainers to 105-107 class (most of the time). My father uses a 75grn hollowpoint as his go-to critter getter.
t
Trickymissfit
Well-Known Member
I gotta agree, the .250 AI is a nasty little round with some 110 NAB or 115 Bergers in it. I can imagine how nasty it would be with the lighter weight bullets.
And, if you can't find brass for it....You can always neck-up .22-250 brass with your sizing die, and then fire-form them.
Here's a picture of a .250 AI that I found on Google.
the 250AI's only draw back is that the neck length is a little on the short side before fire forming, and you'll loose another .035". The good side is that you'll never have to trim cases often. Personally, I'd form my cases from .243 brass as you'll see less brass movement during fire forming. Plus you can trim the necks to the max the chamber will allow before fire forming (-.010"). Brass may only shorten about .025" this way, and .243 brass is very common.
I know a couple guys that shoot that round for ground hogs and coyotes all the way out to five hundred yards. If memory is right they pretty much use nothing but 85 thru 90 rain bullets. Both use short action Remingtons, and the loaded rounds cycle thru the action very well. I'd love to have a Hi-Wall chambered in this round.
gary
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Deleted member 48126
Guest
I've read a couple of articles in rifle, guns and ammo, and hand loader where guys did tests with ridiculous wildcats like a .223 on a 284 or 300 case. They were trying to break the 5000 FPS barrier. The tests would either have the 40-55 grn bullet either disintegrate or tumble from (I assume) stability issues with the improper rifling. I guess if you have the right set up anything is possible.
Outlaw6.0
Well-Known Member
Having the bullet come apart is very possible. Some light jacketed bullets cannot hold up to the rotational velocity (RPMs) that some cartridges & barrel twist combos can generate.
The 22-243 Middlestead (basically an AI) did break 5000fps with the 35grn V-Max. Fun, but mostly worthless for what I do.
t
J E Custom
Well-Known Member
I have not seen any barrel wear more than normal, But as I said earlier there were some requirements when going to a cartridge this hot.
I did lots of research before I built mine, and talked to some well known gunsmiths to get there opinions and this is what I decided to do.
Barrel= I went with a 3 grove stainless Lilja after talking to Dan Lilja because he designed the 3 grove specificly for the varmint hunters that shot thousands of rounds of high velocity 22 cal
rifles. The lands in the 3 grove are wider giving them a better wear rate. And stainless because
it has better wear resistance also.
The 1 in 15 twist was because of the intended velocity and because the faster twist barrels are
very hard on bullets at these velocities.
I use the 40 grain ballistic tip because it has a thicker jacket (Nosler had some failures with the old thin jacket varmint bullets and made the change for the varmint hunters) and I have had zero problems with them shedding there jackets or loosing accuracy
I have not tested anything above 60 grains in my rifle but with bullets up to 90 grains and BCs over
600 the WSSM should be impressive but the twist would have to be altered to 1 in 10 or 1 in 12 to work.
The really fast twist used in the 223 ARs (1 in 7 or 1 in 8 would be to fast for the WSSM velocities.
I have not pushed my 223 WSSM to max yet (Because it shoots so well) But one day I will see just how fast it will accurately shoot and group.
J E CUSTOM
Just to make sure I have this correct, is a 250 AI an ackley 22-250? Between this and the 223 WSSM which one is likely to be a better choice? In terms of shooting distance I am only looking to shoot up to 500 yards. I looked at the 257 STW but from what I can gather it does burn through a barrel fairly quickly. I still like the idea of the 6x284 but I know that they are also fairly hard on barrels.
Trickymissfit
Well-Known Member
a 22-250 is a .250 Savage necked down to .224. A 22-250AI is really nothing more than a .250AI necked down to 22 caliber. If you want a 22 caliber burner, the WSM on paper is better, but few people ever get anywhere with them. The 22-250 cases can be found all over the place, and there is mountains of load data out there. And that's where you start with the Ackley variant. There are also three or four versions of the 22-250 necked up to 6mm (probably even more). I shoot the 6/250AI, which is nothing but a 250AI case necked down. Have never owned the 22-250AI, or the .223WSM, and have little desire. I would go with the Swift or the .204 Ruger. Have friends that have, or owned all of these, and I'm convinced that a plain jane Swift or the improved Swift is better. A Swift with a nine twist barrel would be real nice. Of course if you really wanted to go seriously fast in a 22 bore, then look no further than the .224 Vias. It's nothing but an improved 6.5 x 55 improved with the shoulders pushed back about two millimeters. Problem is that this round is not worth the trouble unless your doing 70 grain and heavier bullets. The 6mm Vias will push a 70 grain bullet faster than a Swift can push a 50 grain bullet with a max load! Another 22 bore round worth looking at is the .224 Jaybird. This is basically a 22-243 improved & shortened slightly. The shoulders are 35 degree. Barrel life should be very good, and the round excels with 70 grain and heavier bullets. Hogdon lists load data for it in their manual. It'll push a 75 grain bullet over 3600fps.
Still I think if your looking at 75 grains and heavier bullets, you should at least look at a 6mm bore, and the 25 caliber.
gary
