accuracy potential of Win 70 with controlled round feeder

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by labrador, Dec 27, 2005.

  1. labrador

    labrador Member

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    Hey guys

    I have learned that few custom rifles are build on ruger M 77 Mk II because of its rather low accuracy potential. This should primarily be because of the controlled round feeding. But then what about the "new" winchester Model 70 that also has a controlled round feeding system? Is the accuracy potential of the winchester 70 with the controlled round feeder comparable to ruger M 77 mk II? or is it better?

    Hopefully you can help me on this.

    Labrador
     
  2. Centre Punch

    Centre Punch Well-Known Member

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    Hi Lab,
    I had a Winchester Stealth in a format that was only sold in Europe, 24" very heavy barrel and full controlled round feeding( not the new controlled round push feed) chambered in 300WSM.

    With 155 and 185 Lapua Scenars it was incredibly accurate for a factory gun, grouping in the .500" most of the time and often into the .300" @ 100yds

    Ian.

    "I meant to shoot the pike but the duck got in the way"
     

  3. Ian M

    Ian M Well-Known Member

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    Labrador,
    Ruger M77's are not as popular as Rem. M-700's and Win. M-70's because one of the stock-bolts sits at an angle instead of vertically making bedding more complicated. Nothing to do with controled round feed. Some of the finest custom rifles are built on CRF actions, the Dakota 76 is an example.

    Rugers can be the basis of great shooting rifles, just more work for the smith. They do not have the aftermarket parts support that the Rem. action does either such as triggers and a wide choice of stocks.
     
  4. Bart B

    Bart B Well-Known Member

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    Labrador, I don't think there's a better box magazine action that Winchester's Model 70. Both the pre '64 (controlled feed) style and post '64 push feed are equal in the accuracy department. They are almost 3 times stiffer than a Remington 7XX action (at least 4 times stiffer than a Ruger 77), don't twist a bit loose in epoxy bedding like the round Remingtons do with heavy bullets, feed more reliably in rapid fire, have a more reliable extractor and their bolt is easier to use. There's other shortcommings of the Remington actions but I won't go into them now.

    Too bad the Winchester factory barrels left something to be desired in the accuracy department, but such is life.
     
  5. mudstud

    mudstud Active Member

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    Bart,

    Please "go into it now" about other shortcomings of 700's! I've shot 3 M70 Classics quite a bit, and am working on a 4th, and am overall amazed, or even shocked, at the level of accuracy these rifles are capable of. As a long-time 700 shooter, my experience to date is that the M70 Classics's, on average, are more accurate than 700's! I've certainly had my share of 700's that were dogs, but to date 2 of the M70's will shoot 1/2" 3-shots at 100 yds. The third is a 300 Weatherby, which approaches 1/2" really close. The 4th, which is a 7mmWSM, shows signs of really wanting to shoot (it puts the first shots from a cold, clean barrel into nice little cloverleafs), but then starts to walk to the right. So, I think this rifle has some bedding issues, which will be addressed. The other rifles are bone stock, except for the mandatory trigger job, of course.
     
  6. sambo3006

    sambo3006 Well-Known Member

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    I'm glad to hear about the accuracy potential of this action. I've got one in 338wm that I'm going to rebarrel-- leaning towards fiftydriver's 270AX in a #5 taper. The 338 didn't shoot worth a darn, but I attribute this to the fact that it bounces almost a foot off the bench with each shot. Lousy rubber butt pad! Who in their peapickin' mind at winchester said "hey! let's NOT put a recoil pad on a 338!" I now have a 338RUM that is ported and it kicks like a 270. Sorry for rambling. Sam
     
  7. Ian M

    Ian M Well-Known Member

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    Ian,
    I have been patiently waiting for you to send that rifle over to me - what seems to be the delay /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Now we have missed Christmas...

    Seriously, I wish we could buy that model over here, would have one for sure. You got a good one, congratulations.
    ian
     
  8. Bart B

    Bart B Well-Known Member

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    OK,mudstud. I'll "go into it" regarding some of the Rem 7XX action issues. These shortcommings have been told to me by folks who built some of the most accurate centerfire rifles as well as my own experiences with one. No, not benchrest, but NRA highpower match rifles chambered for various cartridges.

    Recoil lug; sometimes will bend if making contact only at its bottom against the recoil shoulder in heavy-recoiling rifles.

    Extractor; breaks a lot. Many have been replaced with a Sako or M16 style which is very good.

    Special tool needed to change firing pin spring; something that needs to be done about once a year to maintain proper primer ignition.

    Short bolt handle; hard to grab easily in rapid fire.

    Receiver tang can bend; especially when rear stock screw is tightened up too much.

    Round receiver twists loose from epoxy bedding; (mentioned this before, here's the rest of the story). When using bullets heavier than 160 grains, the twist from bullets going down the rifling torques the receiver. With nothing to hold the receiver in place except the recoil lug, they tended to work loose after a few hundred rounds. Some US military rifle teams tried using 2-inch long recoil lugs but their 30 caliber magnums on Rem. 7XX actions still worked loose. Sleeving these receivers (flat sides & flat bottom sleeve) was first done by benchresters who had similar but smaller problems and the highpower folks ended up doing the same thing to solve the problem. How much did accuracy suffer? About 1/4th to 1/3rd moa; enough that top competitors could tell the difference.

    I don't know of any NRA match rifle based on a Rem. 7XX action that's shot as accurate as one built on a Win. 70 action.
     
  9. Centre Punch

    Centre Punch Well-Known Member

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    Hi Ian,
    Looks like you missed the secret word "had" a Winchester Stealth.
    It is currently for sale with a Registered Firearms Dealer, If you are still interested email me and i will send you
    the details.

    Ian.

    "I meant to shoot the pike but the duck got in the way"
     
  10. labrador

    labrador Member

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    Dec 21, 2004
    thanks guys for all the answers, I really appreciate them. The winchester 70 is really the rifle I like the most, so I also liked your answers ;-)

    Lab
     
  11. Ian M

    Ian M Well-Known Member

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    Ian,
    Tempting, verrrry tempting. But fact is I am about full right now with upcoming gundeals. Too many rifles, too many booolits, not enough time /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif