7mm WSM long throating

I know that you mean a "Dummy Round" with where you want the bullet in the case for the CBTO. Not a Loaded cartridge. BUT some may take you suggestion literally????
You can also have a SAAMI cut chamber and if you feel that you can work on the chamber or have you GS get a "Uni Throater" to extend the throat to your bullet.
The issue with taking a SAAMI chamber and adding freebore is that the oversized portion of the existing chamber is about .0477" long before the throating tool starts to cut, at least according to the previously linked thread (my brain is to foggy to do the math myself).
If possible, it would be better to have a reamer that stops after the 45° step-down cone from the case neck (at 2.1100" on the drawing). That way, the tight section of freebore starts a lot sooner. You can see on the drawing that the SAAMI reamer is .287" dia at this point and it takes a fair distance at a 1.5° taper to get down to a "precision" .2845" freebore dia.

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Before going too far down this road I would consider mocking up some projected velocities and compare the 195 to a 180 and see which fares better. I think you might be surprised. I think the 180 ELD-M, on paper, looks to go farther than the 195 EOL at 28 Nosler velocities. Just a thought, I think even if you throated for 195s a 180 would still be fine and if you throated for 180s a 195 would still not encroach too much. I built a dummy 7mm WSM with a 195 and it's pretty big. I'm thinking it's be a max of around 2800 FPS, but idk for sure.
 
I know that you mean a "Dummy Round" with where you want the bullet in the case for the CBTO. Not a Loaded cartridge. BUT some may take you suggestion literally????
You can also have a SAAMI cut chamber and if you feel that you can work on the chamber or have you GS get a "Uni Throater" to extend the throat to your bullet.

Good catch - and of course you are correct - it should have been "load a dummy round".
 
Looking back over a decade at the Accurate Shooter website, Dave Kiff was recommending .19 freebore for the 180 Berger VLD's available at the time. I have not seen any specs for the 195. The WSM series was designed to fit in a 2.86" action, but since you will be using a long action, COAL can be whatever you want, which is why McGowans asked for dummy cartridges. My guess is that your COAL will be over 3".

It is useful to ask if they will use a custom reamer or a SAAMI reamer followed by a throating tool. A custom reamer would be better. The freebore of of a precision 7mm cartridge (like the 7mm PRC) is normally something like .2846". The SAAMI chamber is a forcing-cone-only design (1.5° per side), but it starts at .287" dia (+ .002 tolerance), which is considered pretty sloppy today. In other words, if they start with a SAAMI reamer, the bullet will go through the sloppy section before it can get to the tighter added freebore.

Here is a thread that goes over some of the confusing aspects of the SAAMI 7mm WSM chamber design. Even though the SAAMI WSM chamber is technically a "no freebore design", it starts off at .287", so there is a significant distance before the tapered forcing cone reaches the lands:
https://www.longrangehunting.com/threads/does-anyone-have-a-7-wsm-reamer.200416/
Given the 195g LRHT bearing surface is 0.063" longer than the 180VLDH, to keep the start of the boat tail at the same point relative to the base of the shoulder vs the 180vld with a 0.190" FB it would require the FB for the 195g to be 0.253". Seems like a lot to me especially given the 7PRC which is really optimized for the 180/195g class bullets has a 0.233" FB. Some simple calculations given the brass dimensions will get you close but I'd go the route of doing as others have suggested with creating a dummy round. The art is trying to get the base of the boat tail above the neck shoulder junction while still allowing enough neck engagement on the bullet and room to chase the lands. The neck on the 7WSM is pretty short only being 0.244" vs some other 7mm cartridges which are more in the 0.310" range allow more neck engagement and margin for error.
 

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Before going too far down this road I would consider mocking up some projected velocities and compare the 195 to a 180 and see which fares better. I think you might be surprised. I think the 180 ELD-M, on paper, looks to go farther than the 195 EOL at 28 Nosler velocities. Just a thought, I think even if you throated for 195s a 180 would still be fine and if you throated for 180s a 195 would still not encroach too much. I built a dummy 7mm WSM with a 195 and it's pretty big. I'm thinking it's be a max of around 2800 FPS, but idk for sure.
You shouldn't have an issue getting 2800. I got 2790 in a 22" true short action. This is with fairy dust RL26 though which is tough to come by.

Agree the 180class are probably a better fit for the wsm though. The 195 loaded to lands is way out there (in OAL anyway).
 
I was thinking of running 175 Nosler ABLR's and 168 Barnes LRX's too. Interested in seeing the velocity difference from my 7mm SAUM and 280 AI. Im the 7mm man for a reason.....😉
 
I was thinking of running 175 Nosler ABLR's and 168 Barnes LRX's too. Interested in seeing the velocity difference from my 7mm SAUM and 280 AI. Im the 7mm man for a reason.....😉
If you care, I was able to hit 3000fps with ABLRs in that same barrel. They seem to run about 25-50fps faster than ELDX for me.

I personally trust eldx more (only because I've killed a lot with em).
 
If you care, I was able to hit 3000fps with ABLRs in that same barrel. They seem to run about 25-50fps faster than ELDX for me.

I personally trust eldx more (only because I've killed a lot with em).
That's awesome. I hope i can get. I am only able to get 2700 fps out of my 24" SAUM on a modified R700 action for 2.95" COL. Smoked that buck in my profile with it though. Pass through at 275 yards. I get 2800 fps from a 168 LRX in my 26" X-bolt speed LR. Smoked a muley in Montana last year with it. I love 7mm cartridges.
 
I believe I am just going to send a few dummy rounds of the largest bullets I may use and tell them make sure they fit. If not adjust accordingly. I did a 7 SAUM on a 700 action I opened up to allow up to 2.95" last year. Got a standard chamber. I have shot up to 180 ELD-M at 2.95" with no issues. I don't have any 195 bergers but it appeared my 180s ELDs could go all the way to 3.10".
That's my saum setup, but with a long throat on a savage. I got the results I was after and stopped looking at the bergers, I know I'd be hand loading feeding though. I suspect you're right that dummy rounds are the way to go here, I doubt there's many preset configurations in people's notebooks for the OTC 7wsm case like for the others.
 
In 2 barrels chambered in a 7 saum at 27" I'm getting 2,962' and 2,981' out of the 195's and a freebore of .200" and Adg brass. I think the wsm will do that for sure.
I probably should have noted the SAUM 2700 load is a couple grains below max with H1000. I think I could have got 2800 but the load at 2700 was so darn accurate. ADG brass of course.
 
Given the 195g LRHT bearing surface is 0.063" longer than the 180VLDH, to keep the start of the boat tail at the same point relative to the base of the shoulder vs the 180vld with a 0.190" FB it would require the FB for the 195g to be 0.253". Seems like a lot to me especially given the 7PRC which is really optimized for the 180/195g class bullets has a 0.233" FB. Some simple calculations given the brass dimensions will get you close but I'd go the route of doing as others have suggested with creating a dummy round. The art is trying to get the base of the boat tail above the neck shoulder junction while still allowing enough neck engagement on the bullet and room to chase the lands.
TL: DR version: If you want only the boat tail of a 195 Berger below the neck, you will need a custom chamber with freebore that extends to at least 2.381" from the bolt face. The loaded cartridge will be over 3.25" long. If you don't mind more of the bullet inside the case, a less extreme chamber will work, but the COAL will still be about 3" to keep the ogive out of the neck.

Background:
I got curious and did a deep dive on reamers and chambers for this cartridge and ran some calculations. In the end, it comes down to which bullets are likely to be used and if the chamber should be optimized for an unusually long one like the 195 Berger Extreme Outer Limits. It also matters if you want the all bullet's bearing surface in front of the shoulder-neck junction or whether you are fine with some of the shank below the neck and in the powder area. On top of that, there is the question of how much jump would be best.

Nit-picky Confusing Details :
Unfortunately, the term "freebore" has several definitions and this can cause confusion. In this post, what matters is the distance from the mouth of a chambered, max-spec case to the spot where the interior of the barrel becomes the same diameter as the bullet's full-diameter bearing surface. This is where the bullet has an interference fit and "jams" in the barrel.* I will use the term "effective total freebore" to describe this dimension.

A typical reamer cuts some clearance in front of the case neck and a chamfer from the neck diameter to the start of the tapered throat ( for the SAAMI WSM spec) or freebore tube + throat combination (on cartridges like the 7mm PRC, Rem Mag, RSAUM, etc). That freebore tube is slightly larger than the bullet diameter, so the bullet travels an additional short distance past it before reaching an interference fit inside the barrel.
With the 7mm PRC, for example, the total "effective freebore" is about 0.272". Given the clearance and chamfer, the length of the .2846" dia freebore-tube shown on the chamber drawing is 0.233", as noted by KsKevin.
The bullet's full-diameter bearing surface jams about 2.552" from bolt face, if my math is correct**. The geometry of the bullet's ogive may change that a tiny bit. This gives a jump to the lands of about 0.034" if the 195 Berger is loaded with its boattail-shank junction in line with the case's shoulder-neck junction (1.9932" from bolt face). This should give a loaded COAL of about 3.391" (longer than the SAAMI spec of 3.34").

With the 7mm WSM, the max case length is 2.10". The 195 Berger has a bearing surface length of 0.524", a 0.25" boattail, a 0.874" nose (ogive), and a length of 1.648". With the beginning of the boattail at the shoulder-neck junction of the case (1.8565" from the bolt face), the COAL will be about 3.255". The bearing surface on the bullet would end about 2.381" from the bolt face. To "jam into the lands", the effective total freebore will be about 0.281". The length of a freebore tube (0.2845"dia) would be roughly 0.242" long, given a fairly standard 0.01" clearance in front of the case, a 45° chamfer and a 0.01" distance from the end of the freebore-tube to the the jam-point in the barrel.

The Berger Hybrids do not need to be jammed into the lands for accuracy, which brings up the question of lengthening the freebore section for additional jump. I have seen a drawing for a reamer from JGS designed for the "180 Berger", which I think is the 180 grain VLD Hunting bullet. The notes state it gives the bullet a 0.036" jump. This particular reamer had a total effective freebore of about 0.279" and the 0.2845" diameter freebore tube was 0.240" long, ending at 2.3688" from the bolt. My estimates for a chamber using the 180's specs with a 0.036" jump are within 0.01" of this reamer print, so I think my reasoning is sound. FWIW, the 195 Berger's bearing surface is about .033" longer than the 180 VLD's 0.491".
I will post the reamer print if I get permission to do so.


* To make matters more confusing, this is not always the start of the rifling since some cartridges like the 7mm WSM spec a groove diameter (0.2837") which is smaller than the typical .284" bullet. That means the bullet's bearing surface will jam before encountering the rifling.

** The case mouth (max) is 2.28" from the bolt face. The end of the 0.2846" dia freebore-tube is at 2.540". The distance from the end of the freebore-tube to the place where the bullet's .284" dia bearing surface jams in the barrel is about 0.012" farther given the 1.5° slope per side in the tapered throat (or forcing cone... the term used by Hornady in their podcasts).
 
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Just some data I put together since I am jumping into the 7 SAUM arena. I am really working on getting the heavies to work. I wanted just a bit more powder capacity to makes sure I can get to 2900fps. I have set this up with a 0.218 freebore as designated by the column noted in green. The arrow on the bottom left points to the bullet seating depth. The arrow on the right is what I have settled on for shooting the Berger 195 EOL. I have been told what you need is bore diameter bullet seating and that is shown at 0.284. The cartridge neck length is 0.311. The bullet is seated in the case of the seating depth at 0.311 so that the bearing surface starts right at the case neck junction with the boat tail below that point. The boat tail is slightly up the neck when the bullet is seated at 0.284. I am taking a page from Brian Litz on seating depth for the Berger hybrids and assuming I will find accuracy at a jump of 0.025 with a seating depth of 0.284. If what he says holds true, I will keep shooting the same load with the same bullet seating depth until accuracy falls off at some point. In the meantime I will keep measuring the throat to see how fast it moves. Pay attention to the COAL on the far right. I will be shooting this out of a Zermatt Arms TL3 long action so no issues for me but a short action will be a problem. You really need a long action to stretch out the legs on the 7 SAUM with heavies. If I want to shoot the 180 Hybrids, I will not be able to seat to bore diameter. It can be done but I will probably need to single load to make sure the bullet stays concentric during loading. Okay for target and not ideal for hunting loaded in a magazine. This design does open up lots of possibilities using some of the other heavies.

You can also see what the SAAMI design looks like with the 0.90 freebore using a 1 degree throat angle. You can see how the 180 hybrids work but where using the heavies becomes an issue since you can't get the powder capacity you need to get them to shoot inside the 180 hybrids.

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