6.5 build

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by tyfo, Jun 17, 2012.

  1. tyfo

    tyfo Well-Known Member

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    Hi all,

    I have been reading this forum for quite some time and have really enjoyed all of the great info here. With that being said, I have a dilemma on my hands. I am finally taking the plunge and building a 6.5, but I am struggling with what one since I don't have any experience with any bullet smaller than a .308 for big game hunting. Here are the build parts:

    Rem 700 LA mag bolt face
    Krieger 1:8 28.5" Light varmint
    Manners MCS T
    Stock rem DM, or Seekins AICS DBM (not sure yet)

    I would like to be able to take a white tail out to 1000 and elk up to 400. It will also be used for the occasional coyote, black bear, and cougar. I will almost exclusively be using 140 berger's. Longer barrel life would be nice, but not a necessity. Recoil isn't a big issue, less is always better, but I can always put a brake on. I would love to have a big boy barrel burner, but I'm trying to stick with what I need to get the job done without really complicated hand loading and fire forming (I haven't been hand loading that long).

    I think that a MV of at least 3100 (preferably over 3200) would do all I want it to. So far I am thinking of the .264 WM, 6.5 WSM, and the 6.5 STW. I know the STW is a little more than I need, but for some reason it is a really attractive cartridge to me. The 6.5 WSM is probably in the lead due to the fact that I can use it in the LA magazine and not worry about COAL and since I have almost no experience reloading belted magnums there would be less of a learning curve with the WSM.

    So I guess my questions are; What are your guys opinions of these three and are there any other 6.5 loads that should be thrown in the mix with these three that don't require any bolt face work? Is it really as difficult to load belted magnums as some people make it seem, especially since I plan on buying custom dies if the round dictates it?

    Any help is much appreciated. Thank you,

    Tyler
     
  2. woods

    woods Well-Known Member

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    Another option is the 6.5 Remington Magnum

    [​IMG]

    It is like a mini- 264 win mag

    I have rebarreled two 300 win mag actions into 6.5 rem mags, one with a 26" Douglas and another with a 26" Shilen. Sold the Shilen to a friend and kept the Douglas

    It is a commercial cartridge which means commercially made dies and cases.

    Mine will push a 140 gr bullet at 3100 fps and a 130 gr bullet to 3200 fps. It uses a faster powder than the 264 win mag and thus will be easier on barrels.

    Works perfect in both the long actions I rebarreled. You can set the lands to seat those long bullets way out there

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  3. Outlaw6.0

    Outlaw6.0 Well-Known Member

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    I was in your shoes about a year ago & to help :rolleyes: my 6.5WSM should be completed this month.

    I wanted something different & bad ass... I got a smoking deal on a Stiller S/A so... the long action cals were out. No big deal..


    264 STW.... unless running an AM, this is pretty much king of the hill... LTLR has posted some amazing velocity with the 264STW... When your throat starts to get bad, my money says the STW will shred the 140VLD's at top velocity... probably not the best bullet for this combo...

    .264 WM... Better balance of velocity & BBL life. Not as fast as the STW but better brass selection, will work best with the 140VLD & offer great external ballistics.

    6.5WSM... kind of the red headed bastard child.... Some love some really hate it ... reputation as a barrel eating, fire breathing dragon of mythical lore... Supposed to be in the area just above the 264 mag... the short fat powder column should make it easier to obtain consistency. The Shorter OAL will make it easier to set you bullets out LONG & utilize all of your powder capacity. Mine is a single shot.... With the reputation the WSM has gained, my guess is it will also shred the VLD's after 4-500 rounds... just a SWAG there.


    If Lapua really does manufacture the 7RSAUM brass like we've been lead to believe, I would hands down say the 6.5 RSAUM will be a better selection than the WSM... More efficient & darn near as fast...

    At very least, if you intend to mag feed, you might look at the Wyatts extended mag box... there is no such thing as too much room in the box... especially when you start chasing the lands :D
     
  4. backwoods83

    backwoods83 Well-Known Member

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    For a shorter cartridge using a mag bolt face my vote goes to the 6.5 rem mag 3150fps+ with a 28" barrel, for a long cartridge my vote goes to the 6.5x257wby mag 3350+ in a 28, just a tid slower than the 264 stw but much longer barrel life, even longer than the 264win mag.
     
  5. tyfo

    tyfo Well-Known Member

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    Woods,

    Thank you for the info on the 6.5 rem. It was kind of on my radar before but two things held me back. I didn't think they were pushing 140s over 3100 and I figured if I was going to reload for a comercially chambered belted cartridge then why not just go with the 264 win mag. I'm still learning about how different powders can effect barrel life so how much longer life would we be talking about?

    Outlaw6.0,

    I like the idea of the 6.5wsm if I go with the s/a. Mainly because there is a lot of brass out there and there is no belt to deal with. Let me know how you like it after you get it. As for the DBM. I have looked into wyatts, but would probably go with another seekins if I wanted to have a lot of room in the mag. A long the lines of bullets. I would really like to use the bergers since I have had nothing but good luck with them, but a lot of people have been warning me that they might not make it at speeds above about 3300 in a 1-8 twist and in a barrel with a couple hundred rounds down it. What are some other 140s you would suggest? Would it be worth ordering another barrel in a 1-8.5 twist or even a 1-9 to try a stick with the bergers?

    Backwoods83,

    I could be wrong, but from what I understand the 6.5/257 wby should be almost right on par with what the 264 wm should do. But the wm would do it without the costly brass and the more difficult (from what I've heard) reloading of the weatherby case. And how would this round extend barrel life over the 264?

    I am still pretty new at the whole custom rifle thing and especially when it comes to wild cats in custom guns, so I apologize if some of my questions or thoughts seem like no brainers to some of you more experienced guys. Thank you for the help.

    Tyler
     
  6. Outlaw6.0

    Outlaw6.0 Well-Known Member

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    Well, from one Tyler to another:D The Seekins DBM will allow 3.100 OAL which is .002 over where i'm sitting right now. I'm running a 1-8.4 twist Obermeyer 5R in my WSM.... The first bullet I intend to run is the 130 Cutting Edge Bullet. If you are dead set on 140's the Accubomb will not disintegrate en route. I would play with this...JBM - Calculations - Stability The JBM stability Calculator should give you a good idea of whether or not the 1-9 will stabilize your 140. My intuition says it will, but I don't know.
     
  7. backwoods83

    backwoods83 Well-Known Member

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    To the OP, the 6.5x257wby mag holds 2.4grns more h2o than the 264wm and operates at a higher pressure. The extended barrel life is due to case design and the extra long neck of the wby case. This round is easy to load for, no high dollar dies. McHorter runs the 140s just under 3300 and the 130s just under 3400 in a 26" barrel. Anything north of a 260rem is hard on barrels when fired rapidily, in 26 cal that is.
     
  8. tyfo

    tyfo Well-Known Member

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    I have used that calculator quite a few times and its the reason I went with the 8 twist for the vlds. I may end up getting another barrel in 8.5 so that I can still stabilize most bullets and maybe the vlds won't fly apart. I would like to stick with 140s too because of the higher bc and I will be shooting animals larger than deer with this gun and the extra power would be nice.

    I like the thought of a 6.5/257 wby because it is a little different than what everyone else has. What held me back from it was mainly the reloading of it and the cost of brass vs the 264 wm. I can't get away from the extra cost for brass, but you say its easy to load and doesn't require expensive dies. It got me thinking of what dies to use. I could get customs but they are more expensive so I was wondering if you were talking about using something along the lines of a 257 wby neck sizing bushing die with the right size bushing for the .264 bullet. Then using the 257 body die if things start to get tight. For seating would a 270 wby die work since I believe the 257 and 270 use the same case.

    Thanks for the help.

    Tyler
     
  9. woods

    woods Well-Known Member

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    This chart is a general guideline on barrel wear

    [​IMG]

    the stigma on the 264 win mag and other overbore cartridges is that they take the slooooowest powders possible. I have always read that the old 264 win mag shooters loaded up with 870 so in a 264 that reads 500 shots

    the 6.5 rem mag has been called the original short magnum and powders in the 4350 to 4831 range (I shoot RL17 which is comparable to IMR4350 burn rate) so the barrel life should be in the range of 2000

    Of course how you shoot and reload also has some bearing on your barrel life. Letting your barrel cool down and not get super hot is a big factor. This would apply to both the burners of slow powders or faster powders.

    YMMV
     
  10. backwoods83

    backwoods83 Well-Known Member

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    Well you will pay just as much for quality (nosler custom) 264wm brass as you will 257wby brass from norma.
    Low budget reloading setup, RCBS 2 die 270 wby, hornady universal 26cal neck sizer, all less than 60 bucks, remove the expander assembly from the fl length die to bump the shoulder, put a 26cal vld seater plug in the seater die, and the hornady neck die will give you the .292" neck on a loaded round that you need.
    Option 2, 2 die RCBS used same as above, redding type s bushing neck die for 270wby with .291-.293" bushings, about 150 bucks, but more consistent.
    If your smith has to order a reamer I would tell him .175" freebore, 3/4 of a degree leade angle for 60 mins, dave kiff at ptg is very familiar with this type of throat, will have the ability to launch 140 bergers over 3400fps but they will come apart at that speed in a 8 twist. Even at 3300fps at 1400ft alt the 140 has a 1.5xx stability factor in a 9 twist with 50% humidity.
     
  11. sinarms

    sinarms Well-Known Member

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    I maybe a little bias but this is what I would build if it was my parts

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  12. apexmtnman

    apexmtnman Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like a lot of rigmarole to get 264 Win performance if you ask me. What does this mean "3/4 of a degree leade angle for 60 mins"? Most reamers used for VLD's are using a 1 degree 30 min leade which is actually 1.5 degree leade.
    To the OP if it were me I'd just build a 264 Win Mag. cheap easily available brass, no mix matching die components, availability of factory ammo if you don't handload and damn they just shoot good (I own 3). But then thats just me, I guess some people just like rigmarole.
     
  13. tyfo

    tyfo Well-Known Member

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    So after the advice from quite a few people I ordered another barrel. It's a krieger rem varmint 8.5 31". Not sure if the 8.5 will help, but I don't see how it could hurt. Thank you very much for the powder burning chart. It was nice to see some numbers instead of just hearing that this powder will be harder on barrels than this one.

    Thank you for the info about the 6.5/257 wby it was helpful. All the info about the reamer was a little over my head, but then again I'm just a lineman not a gun smith. I believe in time I will get there, but not quite yet.

    What kind of performance do oh get out of the 6.5 sin? I had a hard time navigating your website from my phone. From what I read it seems like loading for it is more than I'm used to, but not too much for me to try on an interesting new cartridge.

    The decision is still up in the air, but if there was a perfect cartridge everyone would use it. Thanks.

    Tyler
     
  14. backwoods83

    backwoods83 Well-Known Member

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    If your not familiar with a 3/4 degree 60min leade maybe you should ask Shawn Carlock, Kirby Allen, Dave Kiff, or David Tubb what it does. If I weren't for a couple companies deciding to chamber the 264wm again for a while it would be long forgetten except in custom rifles like it just about was during the release of the 7mm rem mag in 62. It is a very inefficient case, using retumbo, H870, us 869, the way it works the only suitable powder availbe that's decent is retumbo so you may as well have a 6.5-06 or it AI cousin, and the cheap winchester brass available is just that, cheap. The 6.5x257 with H1000 will out run the 264wm with retumbo. Sinarms 6.5 is a great design for velocity and probably very accurate but that's a lot of powder from a hole that small.