300 ultra twist rate

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by jkehley, Nov 3, 2006.

  1. jkehley

    jkehley Member

    Messages:
    11
    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Looking for advice on twist rate for a 300 ultra to shoot 155 to 168gr bullets.Have had 2 Rem PS and 1 Rem Sendaro barrel on the rifle with 10" twist and all three will shoot 180gr and up well. However when I drop below 180s, groups suffer and open up.I have emailed Sierra and they suggested an 11 or 12 twist with no preference for one or the other with these bullet weights. I am about to have a short throated tight neck reamer made and order a new barrel. Has anyone out there tried something like this???
     
  2. dbhostler

    dbhostler Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    837
    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2002
    I have an 11 twist Lilja in a 300 RUM that works well with the 200-220gr bullets. Best bet is to talk with the barrel maker and ask for their recommendations.
    db
     

  3. Shawn Carlock

    Shawn Carlock Sponsor

    Messages:
    1,897
    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2007
    If you never want to shoot anything heavier than the 168 bullets you listed I would use a 1-14 if you still want to use the 180's go 1-12.
     
  4. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

    Messages:
    6,848
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2004
    The recommendations that Shawn gave are spot on so I have nothing to add there. What I would like to add is that you may want to consider that the reason the lighter bullets are not shooting as well may be due to the round you are shooting them out of at least in part.

    Let me explain. You have a round with a 100 gr case capacity. In my opinion, the 300 RUM should be loaded with at least 180 gr bullets to get the most consistant results with this size of a case capacity. In fact, the heavier the bullets, generally the easier it is to fine a quality consistant load with these big rounds. The 180s are good, the 200 even better.

    Just seems the heavy bullets allow the large case capacity to work much more consistantly compared to lighter bullets.

    Also, remember that most 150 to 168 gr bullets are not in any way designed for the velocity potential of the 300 RUM. When most were designed the biggest round out there was the 300 Wby and to be honest, most were used and tested in rounds like the 308 and 30-06.

    As such, they are not generally designed for the velocity potential of the big 300 RUM and that may also result in some accuracy issues.

    Again, not trying to tell you which way to go with your project, but I will say on averge, it is much easier to find a truely consistant and accurate long range load using a heavy for caliber bullet with these large case capacities. Plus you get the advantage of better ballistic and terminal performance as well.

    In some cases light bullets work very well though so it greatly depends on what you want to do with the rifle.

    Good Shooting, just some things to think about! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  5. jkehley

    jkehley Member

    Messages:
    11
    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Thank you to all who responded. The thought process behind shooting the lighter bullets was to obtain better expansion on groundhogs. I have placed some good hits with 180gr Nosler BTs, 190gr Sierra MKs and Hornady A-max's and have not had clean kills. I understand that these bullets are intended for large game. I thought that if I drive a 150 to 165gr bullet to the max in the 300 ultra I might see expansion more like my 22-250ack on small game.
    Kirby, I read your post and what you stated makes sense to me as to the accuracy issue with the light weight bullets (should have thought of this myself). In my mind I was blaiming the accuracy problem entirely on the 1 in 10" twist. Now I am scratching my head wondering if I should persue this idea at all. I crono almost every time I go to the range and will have to see if I saved my data from shooting the 165-168gr bullets. I think in my frustration with less than desired accuracy I may have thrown out this data.
    Any recommendations on a twist rate for 180gr Nosler BTs and 180gr Siccroccos only at 3350-3375fps??? Thanx Jim
     
  6. nsb

    nsb Member

    Messages:
    22
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2006
    Walt Berger said that the twist recommendation on his bullets was the minimum recommended twist. I had asked him If I was wasting my time chasing accuracy with 168's as opposed to 185 or 190's. This in regards to shooting his 168's which had a 13 reco in my gun, which I thought was probably a 12. (.300 RUM RMEF Edition from about 5 years back, not sure on the twist specs) He said it would be fine as long as I was at least 13. Now, I can't say his reply would have been the same if I'd have said I was shooting a 1:8 barrel, but I thought I'd share that with you.

    One theory, (that I have yet to test on prairie dogs) is that a hollow point match VLD bullet will respond more violently in the relatively few inches that a small critter has vs something like the Scirrocco or Nosler that is designed to penetrate and take down big game.
     
  7. James Jones

    James Jones Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,854
    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2002
    I would try the 175-190 gr Bergers or 178gr A-max, I've run the 168s out of a 300Win mag and they diden't like the velocity potentail of that round so I'm thinking that the 300RUM would be the same. The Bergers and the A-max will expand very quickly and make a pretty big mess.
    when I use the Bergers for varmints I use a meplat uniforming tool and cut the hollow point back a little bit farther than normal to make a larger frontal area and they absolutly explode , you loose a little bit in the BC area but the expansion is awsome.
    Hell a 190gr Berger with the meplat cut back to make a 3/16 wide tip would still have a higher BC than the 168gr bullets I believe.
     
  8. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

    Messages:
    6,848
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2004
    Jkehley,

    As Shawn already stated, if you want to still shoot 180 gr bullets the 1-12 would be my choice as well. I have developed loads in 300 RUMs using the 200 gr Accubond in 1-12 barrels and accuracy was pretty good but I have never tested this bullet weight in this twist barrel at long range or in cold weather to be able to tell you for sure it will work in every situation with a 200 gr pill.

    With a 180 gr though I would say you will be covered for every situation with good bullet stability.

    I would personally look away from the Scirocco bullets personally. They are just to darn sticky being pure copper and from my load testing, the Nosler 180 gr Ballistic Tip and 180 gr Accubond generally shoot better groups on average and are less expensive as well.

    Another bullet choice to look at would be the 178 gr Hornady A-max. This bullet is much thinner jacketed then any of the others we have been talking about and its tipped design will offer more violent expansion on lighter game.

    What you need to realize if that these bullets are big and heavy. They simply take longer to expand at the velocity levels you can obtain then a 22-250 with a conventional bullet that is designed on purpose to come totally unglued on the lightest game.

    The lighter bullets in the 300 RUM will certainly offer not POP value then the 180 class bullets but I have found accuracy to be sub par as you are also seeing.

    TO be honest, if you want to build a rifle for hammering chucks and you want more power but still the same expansion level why not look at something like the 270 WSM loaded with the 110 gr V-Max to around 3400 fps or a bit more.

    Just seems to me your choice of cartridge is really over powered for the job at hand and I think that is why you are seeing problems getting the results you want. Just to much of a compromise all around.

    Another great choice would be the 6.5mm WSM with a 95 gr V-Max at 3500 fps.

    Not trying to change your mind, just offering options that may get you much better results for what your looking to do.

    Kirby Allen(50)