30/338 Lapua

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by Guest, Mar 2, 2003.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I've been doing alot of thinking about a big 30cal and it has come down to the 300 TOMAHAWK or the 30/338 Lapua or one of the improved version of it. What I would like to know is what are some of you guys with the standard 30/338 Lapua getting as far as velocity with the 240gr SMK. I will be using a custom action with a 34" barrel, if I can get 3100 fps without improving anything that is what I'd like to do.
    Thanks,
    Wayne
     
  2. Darryl Cassel

    Darryl Cassel Well-Known Member

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    Wayne

    You can get 3100 FPS with a standard 300 RUM and 240 gr bullets with that 34" barrel.
    You wouldn't have to improve anything.

    Later
    DC
     

  3. Brent

    Brent Well-Known Member

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    Wayne,

    I know you are looking for all the real world data now, but for what it's worth, I used an OAL of 3.9" for all of them on that LFAD program of mine, with your 34" barrel. All were at 65k psi.

    Here's what it came up with...

    30/338 Lapua with 240 SMK = 3025
    30/338 Lapua with 220 SMK = 3150

    30/338 Lapua Imp with 240 SMK = 3100
    30/338 Lapua Imp with 220 SMK = 3225

    300 Ultra with 240 SMK = 3025
    300 Ultra with 220 SMK = 3150

    300 Ultra Imp with 240 SMK = 3035
    300 Ultra Imp with 220 SMK = 3175

    The powder used here was slightly slower burning than the RL25 I've been using, my 26" barreled 300 Ultra is getting 2950 fps with a 220 SMK at a 67,000 psi average. The program predicts a somewhat "optimum" outlook based on you using a pretty slow powder here. At 3031 fps I was up into the 71,500 psi range, factory ammo produces about 62k psi in my gun...

    [ 03-02-2003: Message edited by: Brent ]
     
  4. Darryl Cassel

    Darryl Cassel Well-Known Member

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    For what's it's worth.

    Here are some real world results from a 300 Rum and the 300 Tomahawk while shooting in 50 degree temperature.

    I know Boyd was getting over 3100 FPS or 3150 FPS with his 300 RUM with the 36" barrel and my Tomahawk is getting me up to 3235 fps with the 240 gr MK and a 34" barrel.

    I have reloaded that ammo 5X so far without stress signs to the case. No extraction problems either.

    I use the WC872 powder in mine.

    Later
    DC [​IMG]


    Boyd----What velocity were you getting from yours with 240s? I know you mentioned it was 3150 or 3172 FPS now that I think about it.

    [ 03-02-2003: Message edited by: Darryl Cassel ]
     
  5. Boyd Heaton

    Boyd Heaton Well-Known Member

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    Darryl,My accuracy load is at 3168 with the 240's.I have ran them saftly in MY GUN to 3200....
     
  6. Brent

    Brent Well-Known Member

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    Darryl,

    what is the case capacity difference on the improved version of yours? I seem to only be able to come up with a grain and a half difference no matter how I design the improved cartridge?

    On your 338/416, I moved the shoulder forward a full .100" and gained 5.0gr capacity, I would have thought "10.0", but not the case. Your neck on the 338/416 is very long and this was easy to do, with the Ultra's already short neck I'm just not seeing it come even close?

    3235 with a 240, that's almost 400 fps faster than my Ultra would likely do at max load and my barrel is just 8 inches shorter, that's 50 fps an inch?

    Here's a post of Boyd's I saved from a month ago to work up a 240 SMK when I found some, it seems about right, so I'm totally perplexed here?

    Boyd Heaton
    One Of Us
    Member # 5999 posted 01-20-2003 05:04

    Try 178gr A-Max's and 93 to 96gr of RL25 or Retumbo..If accuracy is what you're looking for try 80 to 83gr of RL25 or Retumbo with a 240gr MK....They will be slow....Around 2750 to 2800.

    [ 01-20-2003, 05:07: Message edited by: Boyd Heaton ]

    --------------------
    Boyd Heaton Assistant Pit Chairman.Original Pennsylvania 1000 Yard Benchrest Club

    Posts: 354 | From: Pa | Registered: Jul 2001 | IP: Logged
     
  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Thanks guys for all your input. I'm still hoping someone out there has what I'm looking for. I'm not yet set on the Lapua case but I like the shorter fat case and the better case of the Lapua. I have 500 RUM cases to work with, might still go with the 300 RUM, maybe the TOMAHAWK but looking for "real world data" on the 30/338 Lapua.
    P.S. Boyd, you did an awesome job in the video, keep up the good work! Can't wait for #3.
    Wayne

    [ 03-02-2003: Message edited by: Wayne McD ]
     
  8. Boyd Heaton

    Boyd Heaton Well-Known Member

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    Brent,the load data I gave you would be safe in ANY gun.My light gun will push a 240 to over 3000 fps with a 30" barrel.My Heavy gun with handle more powder than my light gun.36" Kreiger barrel....My accuracy load for my heavy gun is 3168.I WILL not tell you the max load's I use in MY GUNS.Again,the load data I gave you would be safe in all gun's chambered in 300 Ultra...

    [ 03-02-2003: Message edited by: Boyd Heaton ]
     
  9. Darryl Cassel

    Darryl Cassel Well-Known Member

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    Brent

    Boyds load you have saved is a load he was trying at Williamsport---NOT his hunting load. We call these loads for target shooting "Powder puff" loads. When he got serious with the loads and wanted more velocity he went on up and went for more velocity and even tried some WC872 that I gave him. That's when the velocity came up.


    Concerning My 300 RUM Improved (Tomahawk) round, to give you an idea of how much I use,I shoot 104, 105 and 106 grs of WC872 powder and the 240 gr bullet . The velocities of 3235 FPS I have attained were checked over an Oehler 35P two or three times on different days to be sure of the speed.

    As per my 338/416---I seat the bullet WAY out so that VERY little bullet (if any) is down in the case) This allows for more powder capacity. As the throat wears, I can go out a bit more. I shoot 122.5 grs of powder in that one and have some room to go but that load is the one that I only get two firings from my cases. It propels the 300 gr at 3310 FPS (fastest I have gone) with the average at 3280 FPS. I don't suggest that load to anyone who does not have a custom HEAVY action and heavy barrel. I will not be responsible for their rifle or damaged done to the shooter. It does work for me.

    What your forgetting as pertaining to the extreme longrange shooter is, we work with heavy loads consistantly to attain the velocity we are after and have for many years. We don't go by the book as there's usually nothing in loading manuals pertaining to the rifles or cartridges we use. Most loading manuals are way under what can actually be fired because the manufacturers don't want to be responsible for someone using an unsafe rifle and loading it up a bit. I have seen a load in a major loading manual that we were using 12 Grs over what they called max and it was working great for us. We are experimenters and testers and have always been that way.

    We did this long before anyone ever heard of the cartridges we use and have used over the years.

    Trust me, the velocities I post are true and accurate or I wouldn't post them.

    With that being said, I hope nobody out there goes to their loading manual and shoves 12 grs "more" powder in their favorite cartridges. It has happened very few times but, it was written as a max load, which it certainly wasen't .
    I don't think it was a misprint either in the loading manual but, maybe?

    Later
    DC [​IMG]
     
  10. Boyd Heaton

    Boyd Heaton Well-Known Member

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    Darryl is correct.....My MATCH load's in my lite gun were 80gr of RL25.....Or 84gr Of Retumbo with the 240's.My gun's have two "SWEET SPOT'S"...One slow and one fast..The load's I posted are the slow loads.Darryl,I can get ALOT OF 872..In the ultra case.. [​IMG] ...Safely [​IMG]
     
  11. Boyd Heaton

    Boyd Heaton Well-Known Member

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    Wayne,Thank you.Butch will be glad to here that...#3 is in the making's.....This one will be a little different.. [​IMG] ...Stay tuned.This one is gonna be good.. [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  12. Darryl Cassel

    Darryl Cassel Well-Known Member

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    Brent

    Anywhere from 25 to 35 fps per inch of extra barrel to a point in most any cartriges.

    25 X 8" =200 fps
    35 X 8" =280 FPS
    My 416 IMp has a 37" barrel.
    My Tomahawk has a 34" Barrel

    The advantage of the 416 case over the 378 Weatherby is, no belt and headspace done on the 35 degree shoulder instead of that damn venturi shoulder. If you improve the 378 case like the 416 is and replace the shoulder with a 35 degree, you will have the same capacity as the 338/416 has, after it has been improved.

    Are you still perplexed???

    As mentioned earlier, the original poster can easily get 3100 from a 34" barrel and using the 240 gr bullet. Boyd is doing better then 3100 with a straight 300 RUM.

    later
    DC [​IMG]

    [ 03-02-2003: Message edited by: Darryl Cassel ]

    [ 03-02-2003: Message edited by: Darryl Cassel ]
     
  13. STL_Shooter

    STL_Shooter Well-Known Member

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    Wayne,

    You were looking for real world data. I shoot a 32" 30 Wolf, a 30 cal variant of the 338 Lapua case, and have a bit of real world experience to share.

    I get 3280 with 220 MKs with 101 grains of H50BMG. Best accuracy, however, is only 3/8 MOA. I was going to use the 240 MKs, but have not for a few reasons.

    The ogive to base measurements, weight, and jacket uniformity (length, dings, dents, dimples) of the MKs I've had are, shall we say, all over the place. To shoot the 1/3 to 1/4 MOA my 30 Wolf is capable of - I have found too much variation in the MKs, and end up with too many "uh oh" piles when sorting the bullets.

    I think I'm pretty well set on these 210 JLKs. Their BC, velocity and uniformity advantages over anything I've seen from Sierra are just too much to pass up.

    Now, I've petitioned Hornady for a heavier AMax (my Wolf can throw 5 of the 178s into a quarter minute at 600 yards at a muzzle velocity of 3470 fps) but Steve tells me there's not enough demand for him to make them...

    If you want more detail, just email me...
     
  14. texas

    texas Well-Known Member

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    STL how much heavier Amax were you asking Hornady for? Did he say how many they would have to have an order to make them?