25-06 Ladder Test

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by 8andbait, Nov 24, 2012.

  1. 8andbait

    8andbait Well-Known Member

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    Recently did a Ladder Test for my 25-06. I have been using H 4831 SC with varied results so thought I would try some Retumbo.
    Using a 115 gr VLD and a CCI 250 Primer seated at .010 Jump.
    I thoroughly cleaned the barrel and fired two fouling shots (usually only takes one) Then I started at 53.5 gr at 300 yards.
    I think I have a nice node at 54.5-56 grains with less than 1" of verticle.
    I have 5 rounds loaded at 55 and 55.5 grains that I will test next week.

    1) 53.5
    2)54
    3)54.5 Shots 3,4,5 formed a 1.2" triangle and shot 6 was same elevation
    4)55
    5)55.5
    6)56
    7)56.5
    8)57
    9)57.5
    10)58
    11)58.5
    12)59

    1 is the bottom shot
    2 is just above it
    3,4,5 are the most right triangle up about 3"
    6 is about 2" to the left of 3,4,5
    7 is up 1.5 inches
    8 is back down and just left of 3,4,5
    9 is above 6 and to the left of 7
    10, 11, 12 are from the bull up

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Korhil78

    Korhil78 Well-Known Member

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    Nice...I actually had the opposite of your test. I had varied results with Retumbo and switched to H4831SC. 54 gr of H4831SC will get me 1/2 MOA out to 700 yards if I do my part.

    Lets us know how your final test goes. Sounds like you have a good load in the making.
     

  3. 8andbait

    8andbait Well-Known Member

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    my best load with H4831SC was 54.3 gr. I would get 1/2 MOA one day then the next day it would shoot 1 moa. I tried Fed 210M, CCI 200 and CCI 250 primers with basically the same results. The ladder test I did with the H4831SC revealed a node between 53.5 and 55 very similiar to the retumbo test so not sure if retumbo is the answer yet.

    gary
     
  4. Bart B

    Bart B Well-Known Member

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    I don't understand why folks think a single shot hole represents where the center of a many shot group will be. Therefore, why do folks just shoot 1 shot for each load for a ladder test?

    What if a 20-shot group for a given load is twice as large as the vertical separation of two shot holes each with a different powder charge?

    Please help me out; I'm ignorant in these things.
     
  5. 8andbait

    8andbait Well-Known Member

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    Bart, each shot represents a different load weight. When you get a "group" with varying loads it typically is a "node" in the barrel that represents a sweet spot.

    When developing a load it is faster and easier to load 10-14 different charges instead of 3-5 of each charge. If I loaded 3 shots at each load I would have had to fire 36 shots to learn what I learned from 12 shots.

    These are the 5 shot groups at 200 yards from the two loads that looked best from the ladder test. Not sure what happened with shot 1 on the 55gr load.
    I had some swirling winds this morning, started out straight down range then from left to right then coming at me. Only about 5-7 mph though.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  6. Bart B

    Bart B Well-Known Member

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    But each shot doesn't represent the center of a group of many shots of that same load.

    The bigger a many-shot group is for a given load, the least reliable a single shot of that load represents where its center is.

    Ladder testing is based on the assumption that a single shot represents the center of a many-shot group with that load.

    I tried a lot of ladder testing a long time ago when it became fashionable for testing loads. Not as good as shooting a single 20-shot group with each load.

    I don't believe it represents any node in the barrel. Too many barrels of different shapes and lengths I've seen have shot the same lot of ammo into no worse than 3 to 4 inches at 600 yards. None of those barrels had the same "node."
     
  7. 8andbait

    8andbait Well-Known Member

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    understood

    gary
     
  8. jhibbard24

    jhibbard24 Well-Known Member

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    For ladder testing I shoot two shots for each load and I only vary my loads by 2 tenths of grain to really find the sweet spot. And I take some poster board and draw a 'crosshair ladder' and for each 'rung' of the ladder I label each with a number or letter for which load I am shooting at that aiming point so I don't mess up and lose track of which bullet hole is what. I prefer to label loads by letters so there is no screw up in the ammo box (I write the letter on the primer), I choose this over numbers for the fact that a 6 could be mistaken for a 9. I have tested well over 20 different loads in one rifle just trying to get that sub 1/2 moa.
     
  9. big honkin jeep

    big honkin jeep Well-Known Member

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    From reading your thread it sounds like you are not only looking for a load but haven't fully settled on a powder yet either. In that case I suggest you try Reloader 22 for your 25-06. I have tried a whole laundry list of powder/ bullet combos in several different rifles and Reloader 22 gave me better accuracy, consistency and higher velocities than anything else I tried. It's simply the best thing I have found for the 25-06 and has made a huge difference for me.

    My current hunting load consists of neck sized Winchester brass, a Winchester WLR primer, 51.5gr of RL22 and a 110gr Nosler Accubond seated .015 off the lands. This load is conservative and shoots amazingly well out of several different quarter bores in my stable.
     
  10. 8andbait

    8andbait Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the tip, I see you are in GA. Do you get to shoot in very cold weather? I have been trying to stay with the extreme powders for their consistency in different temps. I have stayed away from the Relaoder powders for that one reason.

    thanks, gary
     
  11. 8andbait

    8andbait Well-Known Member

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    Are you saying you are using different POA for a ladder test?

    thanks, gary
     
  12. big honkin jeep

    big honkin jeep Well-Known Member

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    Not cold like up north cold. Most winter days that start in the 20s or 30s wind up in the 40s-50s. Typically 2 months of cold January and February. Sometimes lows in the teens highs in the high 20s low 30s for a week or maybe even a couple. Maybe a couple of days a year with ice and snow in the northern half of the state and some years maybe not. I have hunted with RL22 in temps in the high teens low 20s and didn't even think about powder sensitivity. All loads worked just as I expected them to. You may want to just try it in your climate and and see for yourself.
     
  13. 8andbait

    8andbait Well-Known Member

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    I think I will give it a try. I like to shoot longer rangse so that is the only problem. If I was keeping it under 300 I don't think it would matter at all.
    Thanks for the response I appreciate it. I have a 6.5-284 on order that could probably use some RL22 also.
     
  14. jlamb

    jlamb Well-Known Member

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    What is the twist of your barrel? If it's the standard 1 in 10" then you're going to be limited to the size of bullet that you can shoot.

    I've tried it all on my 25-06...My gunsmith pointed me the right direction when I first started reloading. Try 85 or 87 grain bullets with H4350. Work up in .5 grain incriments and shoot 3-shot groups.