243WSSM vs 6.5 Grendel

Discussion in 'Long Range Hunting & Shooting' started by gcollins, Nov 23, 2011.

  1. gcollins

    gcollins Well-Known Member

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    Hi All,
    I know that there are several of you guys that knows long range shooting from 0-azillon yards:D So I would like to hear your thoughts on which of the 2 has the best ballistics. For some reason I cannot open a ballistics reports on the Grendel:rolleyes::rolleyes:
    I am a real bad impulse buyer, and here 10 days ago I run acrossed what I thought was a bargin, it was a AA 18" 6.5 Grendel barrel and bolt. I had done some reading on the Grendel and allways thought if i got the chance to put one togehter I would!

    I would be very great full for any and all advice!
    Greg
     
  2. J E Custom

    J E Custom Well-Known Member

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    The Grendel was designed for the AR15 frame and will work in the standard action.
    The 100 grain loading is very slow (2370 ft/sec) the 6mm WSSM
    has a lot more case capacity and will push the 100 grain to 3110 ft/sec

    So there is not much to compare. The WSSM has a huge advantage over the 6.5 Grendel
    but normally you have to use a AR 10 for the WSSM.

    The Grendel is a great cartrige in an AR and is more powerful than the standard 223.

    The 6mm has slightly better ballistics than the 6.5 with the same weight bullets.

    J E CUSTOM
     

  3. WildRose

    WildRose Well-Known Member

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    The grendel. Much better choice of High BC bullets.
     
  4. Korhil78

    Korhil78 Well-Known Member

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    J E Custom, Are you talking about the factory load for the Grendel? Because I am pushing a 100 gr ballistic tip out of a 20 inch barrel at 2750. It won't matter much compared to a 243 WSSM. Those AR 10 setups are just way too heavy. I don't even like carrying my Grendel AR too far but that is why I just use it for yote hunting. I do like it a lot though.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2011
  5. WildRose

    WildRose Well-Known Member

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    JE I'm not sure where you are getting your data on the Grendel but it sure is way off from pretty much everything I've seen published on it.

    From Chuck Hawks site:

    Here are some hunting reloads developed by David M. Fortier and first published in Shooting Times Magazine. Mr. Fortier used Lapua brass and Federal Gold Medal Small Rifle Match primers for all loads:
    Hornady 100 grain SP bullet, 30.0 grains Western Powder X-Terminator, COL 2.25", MV 2807 fps.
    Hornady 100 grain SP bullet, 30.5 grains Western Powder X-Terminator, COL 2.25", MV 2846 fps.
    Nosler 120 grain Ballistic Tip bullet, 31.0 grains AA2520 powder, COL 2.26", MV 2636 fps.
    Nosler 120 grain Ballistic Tip bullet, 29.0 grains RL-15 powder, COL 2.26", MV 2526 fps.

    6mm BR:

    ad Development and 1000-yard Performance
    Arne tells us: "Having shot thousands of rounds in developing the 6.5 Grendel cartridge (and in testing 6.5 PPCs), we had a good idea of what would work in the bolt gun--Vihtavuori N530 and Western TAC. Both these powders have load densities, kernel sizes, and burn rates that work well with the Grendel case. Though we're still early in the load development process for the F-Classer, our load of Vihtavuori N530 with Fed 205M primers and moly'd JLK 130s produces consistent 2760 fps velocities from a 28" barrel. This load is grouping well, even though it took some time for us to get used to that 2-ounce Jewell trigger! (To an AR15 shooter, one pound is a "light" trigger pull). The N530 and JLK 130gr VLD load produced 6"-7" witnessed five-shot groups at 1,000 yards. The amount of drop at 1000 yards surprised us--an even 30 MOA of adjustment (from a 100-yard zero) got us on target at 1000. That's nearly dead-even with a 6BR shooting a 107gr Sierra MK at 2900 fps. That means, at very long-range, the superior BC of the 6.5mm JLK made up for the lower initial velocity of the Grendel.

    ... .
    How the 6.5 Grendel Stacks Up Ballistically
    With the great performance of the 6BR, and the availability of larger 6.5mm cartridges such as the Rem 260 (6.5-08), one can ask "what is the advantage of the 6.5 Grendel"? The answer is three-fold: size (form factor), efficiency, and BC. The Grendel will fit in an AR15 platform. The Rem 260 will not. The Grendel can push a 130gr bullet to 2760 fps with 15 grains less powder than a Rem 260. Burning less powder reduces recoil, and signficantly extends barrel life.
    Compared to a 6BR, the 6.5 Grendel enjoys the advantage of shooting higher BC bullets. For example, the 6.5mm Lapua Scenar 123gr bullet, with its .542 BC, beats the .530 BC 6mm 107gr Sierra Match-King. And the new 6.5mm 130gr JLK bullets enjoy a BC advantage over ANY 6mm projectile available, even the DTAC 115gr. Initial tests of the 130gr JLK show a BC of .620, which beats the DTAC, with its BC of approximately .580. The larger bore diameter of the 6.5 Grendel allows it to drive a heavier bullet at lower pressures. The same principle applies to the 30BR, one of the most efficient cartridges ever.
     
  6. J E Custom

    J E Custom Well-Known Member

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    Yes.
    When comparing cartriges I allways compare the factory loaded ammo of the company
    that introduced the round because they base everything on SAMMI pressures and design
    purpose.

    We re loaders can do some amazing things with there cartrige with some experimentation
    of equipment and loads, so it would not be a fair a comparison to use re loads,long barrels,
    throat-ed chambers,custom barrels Etc.

    With the gas operated rifles Port pressure is important and damage can occur if this is exceeded.

    I would think it would be a very good round in a bolt rifle without the restrictions of the semi-
    auto.

    J E CUSTOM
     
  7. Korhil78

    Korhil78 Well-Known Member

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    That is what I thought you were doing. The Hornady book shows the 100 grain bullets at 2550 fps for their max load and that is out of a 14.5 in barrel. I believe that you might be thinking about the 123-129 gr loads that Alexander arms has. By hey are loaded at 2405 fps.
     
  8. gcollins

    gcollins Well-Known Member

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    JE,WildRose,Korhil 78,
    Thank you guys for the great replies:)
    When I wrote this post I forgot to mention that I have a AR 15 243WSSM, and when my back would let me (not much) I was working on getting my WSSM to group like I want. I didn't do my research when I bought my 243WSSM remember I am a impulse buyer :rolleyes::rolleyes: I bought a Olly upper 1-10 twist:rolleyes: guys I had been away from shooting for 1o years at least and my favorite hunting rifle was my Ruger #1B in 243 Win. a totaly awesome rifle that shot Sirrea 85gr BTHP like a real tac driver. I had no clue of the fast twist barrels and when I quit shooting the 100gr bullets were the biggest you could buy! So far I am finialy getting some loads work up that will group, the WSSM's seem to be very picky on the load and bullet you shoot threw it gun)
    I plan on staying be hide my 243 untill I cannot get the load I want. I hope that the Gendel isn't as picky??
    My goal is to be able to hit the gong at 1000 yds. I also know that no matter how good the rifle is a very large percent depends on the person who is pulling the trigger, but if the rifle can't group sub MOA at 200yds. then it isn't going to shoot to a 1000 yards.
    You guys are GREAT.

    Greg
     
  9. J E Custom

    J E Custom Well-Known Member

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    Yes I picked Alexander Arms ammo Because to my understanding they are the creators of the
    Grendel and some other rounds for the AR platform like the Beowulf. there are designed
    around port pressure.

    I have a 450 Bushmaster in an AR and they relocated the gas port to keep from beating the
    reciever up with excessive pressure from pushing a 250grain bullet @ 2200 ft/sec.

    It is recomended that if you reload or re chamber an AR that you install an adjustable
    gas block so you can tune the action to the load.

    Hornady tends to load most of there ammo @ near Maximum pressures and these can be
    harmful or accelerate wear to gas guns.

    J E CUSTOM
     
  10. Korhil78

    Korhil78 Well-Known Member

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    Gcollins,

    If you wanted to know.

    This is factory ammo loaded by Alexander arms fired through a PACT chrono placed 10 ft from the muzzle.

    1. 123 lapua scenar. 2591 fps
    2. 120 gr ballistic tip: 2557 fps
    3. 90 gr Speer TNT: 2768 fps

    With the 123 lapua scenar, you will shoot flatter at 1000 yds than .308 and have half the recoil of the .308.
     
  11. WildRose

    WildRose Well-Known Member

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    Well you can always do what I did and just make the next AR a .260... .gun)

    http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f17/new-260-ar-79758/ That will get you started with about 400fps more than the grendel with the same weight bullets, and as you can see with more than acceptable accuracy.