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Discussion in 'Long Range Hunting & Shooting' started by littletoes, Sep 13, 2008.
Anybody using the 240 Match King in a 30 cal for long range hunting?
Quite a few of us do. 300 Ultra, 300 Tomahawk, the 338 Lapua necked down to .308 variants. Whatever can toss 'em.
There is no other bullet in my 300 Ultra that I can develop as much energy with as the 240 (4800 ft. lbs at the muzzle--in my rifle, the AB 200 at 3200 can't do that, 210 Berger at 3150 can't do that) and with highest BC in its class in commonly available bullets, it holds that energy farther out there than anything else--in 'commonly available' bullets, that is.
Last time I checked, if you bring the 300 rum to top load with factory length barrels, for both the 210 and the 240, at long ranges the 210 would be whipping the 240 in just about everything. I'll have to check again.
We've exchanged load info before, but I don't recall yours. Load a 240 into your program at 3005 fps and you'll get around 4800 ft. lbs. of energy. ( Edit: I'm on my 6th or 7th load on these cases at the moment with 104.5 g US869 and the 240 right on the lands (Wyatt's mag box) and I'm down to 19 cases out of the orignial 28. Still holding primers, but decided this time around to use the Hart tool to help hold the primers better.) This is out of my stock 26" barrel. What speed does the 210 have to be going to top 4800 ft. lbs. as the muzzle? Exbal shows that it takes about 3210 fps with the Berger to top 4800 ft. lbs. of energy. Are folks shooting the Berger 210 at 3210 fps in stock 300 RUM 26" barrels? That seems a bit high to me. Even if they match energy at the muzzle, the Berger is losing that energy faster than the 240, right?
Actually you can get about 3000 fps in a 30-378 which also translates to about 5100 ft lbs of energy. In spite of all its hassles, the 30-378 is a heck of a cartridge particularly with longer barrels than normal but using speciality powders such as retumbo, you can push the envelop quite a bit in a standard barrel.
I believe he is meaning at LR the 210's have more energy, not muzzle energy. Whats muzzle energy got to do with anything really?? Dont think theres to many animals shot at the end of the barrel...
If you can get a 240g SMK going 3000fps in a stock 26" bbl, 3200fps should be about max for a 210g in a 26" stock bbl. Hard to believe your getting 3000fps from a 240g IMO. However its probly because your using US869. If you were to use that with 210's, I'm sure you could reach 3200fps.
Not knocking the 240g SMK or your load by any means BTW. I haven't run the numbers in quite a while (couple years since I had my 300 RUM) to verify actually which is better ballistically at LR, so I cant say for sure which out performs which. I might give it a quick gander though to see for myself.
My stock 26" 300 RUM liked the 210's at a slow 3000fps. Thats where the accuracy was. I could push them to 3100 with H-1000 but not as good accuracy. I'm sure with Retumbo or US869, I could've reached 3200fps, but would probly be a warm load.
Plugged in the numbers 240 at 3K, and 210 at 3200.
The 210 shoots flatter obviously by 2 ft at 1K when both zeroed at 100 yards. Windage is 1" difference at 1K which is nothing. I dont think anybody can judge wind to within 1" at 1K to make that a deciding factor. Even at 1500 yards, the diffrence in wind is only 5", which again, I doubt anybody can accurately judge 5" at 1500 yards to make that a deciding factor once again.
The 210 retains more velocity out to 1475 yards, where at 1500 the 240 finally surpasses it by a whole 2fps.
The energy difference at 1500 is only about 140 ft lbs in favor of the 240.
So if you ask me, its pretty dang even between the 2. I would shoot whichever is most accurate and not worry about anything else. They'll both do what you ask of them.
Hope the hunting/shooting is going well.
I don't believe I've seen loads with the 210 at or above 3200. 3200 was the max I felt comfortable with with a 200 AB and 109.5g of US869. Yep, 109.5g. I'm not saying that folks aren't pushing them that fast, I just haven't seen alot of data to that end.
As far as my load. I'm not the only one on this board shooting 240's at or nearly at 3K. Do some looking. I figure if I'm getting 6+ firings out of most of the brass, I'm doing OK. Typically at or below .5 MOA out quite a ways in good conditions if I do my part.
Muzzle energy is a valid comparison especially with known BC's. If muzzle energy is the same for two given loads, but one of the two bullets shot has a higher BC, the higher BC bullet will be slower to shed that energy arriving on target with more, right? That's all I'm saying...that's just basic LRH stuff we all do comparisons on. It's no secret that the LRH crowd will often select the heavy for caliber bullets for BC and long range retained energy. The 240 has the 210 beat in both categories from what little I've seen. Not by a tremendous amount, mind you, but if they work, you know, shoot 'em, right?
Tried some of these 240 SMK's out of an 30-378 last week and they averaged 3004 fps. This is in a Sako 995 which is pretty light and the barrel heats up quickly. I've got a break on it and an Limbsaver slip on, but it's still got some recoil pushing the 240s out that fast. Impossible to spot shots thru scope due to recoil/light weight.
notice I did not mention accuracy per se but was talking about sheer energy. Seldom does accuracy occur at the fastest reloads but with the 30-378 they are surprisingly similar. BUT to really get the total benefit of the cartridge, you need a longer barrel (30 inches) and there velocity is about 200 fps greater and the accuracy improves. Dan Lilja showed this with a 338-378 and the same was shown by Earl Chronister with the 30-378 (32 inch barrel). I mean if you can group shots at 1000 yards in under 4 inches that is accurate to me.
I was checking my records from 2006 when I was messing the the Berger 210 gr. This is what I found for my factory Sendero 300 RUM using Retumbo powder:
101 Grains of Retumbo produced MV of 3306 ft/sec.
Pretty Hot Load, of course, extraction was still ok, primer did not look too whipped but bolt face marks on it, no primer leaks, primer pocket very loose, maybe can be used once more but I just would not. Definitely hot!
98 Grains of Retumbo produced MV of 3178 ft/sec.
Here every thing is cool; no problems even when I think it is about maximun load for my rifle. Brass life not very good; after about two firings primers start getting loose pretty fast. Accuracy is ok!
Rem.-Man is right, you definitely get best accuracy results at around 3000 ft/sec. I like how rem-man looks at it and at 3200 ft/sec and within 1500 yards the choice is for the bullet that shoots better.
jmden has got also a good point, 3200 is a hot (Max) load that if loaded during cold days you don't feel too good packing during hot summer hunts.
Again my feeling is that 240 gr. at 3000 ft/sec is not what I would call a "light" load. Chamber pressures are pobably up there!
Good Posts! ...at 1200 yards on Elk I would probably want the 240 grainer heating the air towards the shoulder! Would you not?
Loads were worked up very carefully. Do not do this at home, your rifle could blow up with 90 grains of Retumbo. Neither the Poster nor this Web site are responsible for the use of this information.
If I were shooting at an elk at long range, I would be using the 240 probably. Things start getting complex if you shoot different grain bullets at different velocities. What is zero for one is not for another. So, early on in a hunt, you need to make reasitic decisions about bullets and loads. you can load 107.5 gr of retumbo with a 220 gr or 116 gr of h870 and have a velocity of about 3170 or so. 240s max out at about 3000 fps. all of these are max loads and you should start out at 90% of the loads and carefully work up toward max. Of course you always balance speed, distance, and accuracy. Folks have killed elk (as example) at over 1000 yards with the 30-378 but everything was ideal.
I shoot 210's out of my 300 WBY at 3000 fps, very good accuracy. I am getting my 30-378 together, planning on 210's and 240's. Barrel length will be 32-33 inches (needs rechambered from last gunsmith screw up)
How does the 240 perform on game ?
I've only killed one elk with the 240, but from what I've seen, it seems to be well regarded in general--similar to the 300SMK in the .338's. Big holes, dead animal.
I've meplat trimmed and measured bearing surface this year, so they may open up a bit faster? At longer ranges that might not be bad.