.223 WSSM or WSSM IMPROVED

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by tbrown9124, Sep 5, 2008.

  1. tbrown9124

    tbrown9124 Well-Known Member

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    I was just wondering if or how many out there have experience with this cartridge or wildcatting it, it just seems to be the best of the wssm's in terms of potential. just fishing for thoughts on this round good and bad
     
  2. cockcroft

    cockcroft Well-Known Member

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    Seems like everyone else says it the worst one.
     

  3. Varminator 911

    Varminator 911 Well-Known Member

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    I'm no expert here but this is what it looks like to me.
    It looks like Winchester just took the same case as the WSM
    line, cut the front off and necked it down to form the WSSM
    line. But this leaves you with a very thick neck on these cases.
    All other 224 cartridges have an outside diameter on the neck
    less than 0.260. The 223 WSSM is 0.272. The really accurate
    rounds like 22 PPC and 22 BR have outside necks at 0.246.
    That's a huge difference. Very thick brass in the neck area.

    I don't hear anything good about these rounds. If I wanted
    a really hot 224, I'd look elsewhere.
     
  4. britz

    britz Well-Known Member

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    I have never shot it or loaded for it, but I am balistically familiar with it. The 223 WsSM has minimum body tapor and (I was going to say 35 degree shoulder, but it its actually 28 degree). It is at the upper limits of practical case capacity for the 22 IMHO, so I wouldn't improve it unless ya just want to say you have one. There are hotrod 22 out there, but when you push so much powder down the tube, you are going to see some very limited barel life. I don't claim to be an expert, but that is my opinion - maybe ya weren't looking for that .... oh well :)
     
  5. tbrown9124

    tbrown9124 Well-Known Member

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    Well i lovee hotrod 22's and as for potential i mean in terms of eavy 22cal bullets 70gr and over, barrela life and wear are the dues we all pay for all out performance one of my fave rifles is a 243catbird it eats a barrel at about 900rds fired so every year and a half or so it gets a new tube. I was just looking at the round as a 22 that i didnt have and may want to get it certainly seems to have the steam behind it. I think i read somewhere on here that Kirby allen played with it when trying to make a 224 allen mag. I have seen the 223 wssm in an ar platform and the gun shot very good at longers distance i was just thinking good barrel and builder and heavy bullets it could have some real long range potential that cartridges like the 223dont have and could be better than some of the other hot 22's like a weatherby rocket ,swift or 225 winchester or the necked down 284. just food for thought
     
  6. J E Custom

    J E Custom Well-Known Member

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    T

    I am in the process of biulding a 223 WSSM and have done quite a bit
    of research and will post the results as soon as I get finished .

    This cartrige is so overbored that I was not interested in wildcating it.

    After deciding what bullet I wanted to use and the expected velocity
    I talked to several barrel makers and decided on a Lilja 3 groove with
    a 1 in 15 twist.

    I posted a thread on 3 groove barrels and got a lot of response (Good and
    Bad) .

    Barrel life is an issue but not a tie breaker.

    I also receved some good advice from kirby about what bullet to use.

    Hear is what I am going to use in it = A 40gr nos balistic tip @ 4400+ ft/sec

    I am currently using a 220 Swift with this same barrel and bullet @ 4200 ft/sec
    and I am very impressed, accuracy is less than .100'' and the barrel cleans up
    with just a few patches (3 or 4 and the copper is gone).

    So now I'm stepping it up and I hope the results will as good or better.

    We dont have the P dogs and muskrats in south texas but we do have Bob cats
    and coyotes so barrel life is not an issue.

    If you finish yours befor I do please post the results.

    J E CUSTOM
     
  7. uncleB

    uncleB Well-Known Member

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    This topic should be changed to .223 WSSM or WSSM WORSEND
    (just a thought)
    UB
     
  8. tbrown9124

    tbrown9124 Well-Known Member

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    snippy snippy about the topic atleast i didnt say anything about liking browning guns! (which are crap) I have yet to spend a dime on a gun chambered for this so I am just bench racing like alot guys here do instead of shooting ..... anyway i was also thinking maybe a 6.5x47 lapua necked down to 224 i bet yu could spec a reamer out anyway you wanted so long as you bought it, I think alot of people forget that,anyway here up north tx we shoot song dogs and hogs and I am looking to build another gun that would be very portable and has long range potential. so light bullets arent even a thought
     
  9. britz

    britz Well-Known Member

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    no need to get upset, you ask for advice and that is what you will get.... along with lots of opinons. Take it all with a grain of sult!
     
  10. cockcroft

    cockcroft Well-Known Member

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    My experience is with the 25 WSSM in an AR platform. What are your ideas for "improved".
    About all you can do is change the shoulder angle up to 35 or 40. Have a reamer made to seat heavy bullets out long? I'm all for wildcatting, most of my rifles are improved versions.
    Have fun with your project.
     
  11. kweidner

    kweidner Well-Known Member

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    I have a .223 wssm in Coyote config. Had it since it came out. It insists on a CLEAN barrel. Will shoot .5 MOA on any given day. .25 MOA on a good one. Will copper foul like crazy if not kept in check. Actually had a keyhole issue once when I first got it. I treated it like all my other guns and would clean every 10 or so. You cannot do this with this cartridge. Clean every 5 and your experience will be better. I love mine. This family has gotten a ton of bad press. Mainly this comes from people who have never shot one. I refused to give up on mine and it is up there with some of my custom rifles now as far as accuracy and reliability. Yes it has terribly thick necks. I anneal mine. They last forever. I shoot mine mostly at paper these days. I use a strong dose of H380 topped with a 52gr Watson Benchrest bullet. I love this cartridge. My load pushes almost 4000 fps. Fun as crap to shoot, no recoil, flat trajectory. Only down side is the need for OCD cleanliness. Any hot round has it's trade offs. Try one, if you don't like it, sell it. I think you will probably keep it if you get one though!
     
  12. tbrown9124

    tbrown9124 Well-Known Member

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    I wasnt getting upset about the replies I can form an opinion on my own but it is hard to ignore bad experience with something especially if there is alot of it all the way around. But as for an improved version i was thinking 40 degree shoulder to help improve case life and maybe a velo gain as well I was just thinking that in my experience with the improved designs is that the most gain or benefit is in shorter cases. I would like to know how you feel about the 25wssm in your ar is it working out for you ? any regrets?
     
  13. britz

    britz Well-Known Member

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    25 cal isn't generally a preffered caliber among long range shooters because of a lack of bullet selection --- that's not to say that there arn't people who use them, rather that .224, .243, .264, .284, .308, and .338 are more popular selections.
     
  14. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

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    The wssm is a fine case except for neck thickness resulting from forming from WSM cases. The 223WSSM should never have happened and was a predictable disaster for Winchestor. They deserve what they get for this.

    It should have started no lower than 25cal, with their primary market at 26 and 28cal. They also should have had WSSM brass made to provide normal neck thickness and normal accuracy potential.
    As it stands, in 22cal, it represents every mistake an inexperienced wildcatter might make.. Overbore, inconsistant in neck tension, higher bolt face forces, magazine/feeding issues, and it leaves too little barrel metal around the chamber unless using a magnum action/barrel shank.
    None of these problems exist with other 22cal cartridges, so it has to get 'worst design' award IMO..

    Now theres hope in larger cals. The problems can be addressed up front. I enjoy a 26WSSM. But honestly, the WSSM capacity has always been achieved with the 06case.. A std 243 case has done it for decades.. My 26WSSM will not beat a 260(a 26-243), your 22WSSM will not beat a 22-243.

    There is no improving this case with a reamer