22-250 mistake

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by mrbb, Jun 21, 2008.

  1. mrbb

    mrbb Well-Known Member

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    ok guys, I have a question, I loaded some 22-250 rounds with federal 215 MAG primers by mistake, shot about 50, didn't notice any problems ( BEFORE knowing I did this), still have about 20 loaded, and about40 just primed!
    Ok, afetr know what i did, I tried to load the emptys form the above, that i shot, only now the cases don't allow me to close my bolt, any way to save these cases!!, i think that the mag primers, swelled the case some, tried to full size them, and still no go, the bolt won't close with these cases now!
    is there any thing i can do!!???
     
  2. Derek M.

    Derek M. Well-Known Member

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    Did you check to make sure they didn't blow beyond max length?

    Measure the OD of the neck of a fired case v. a sized case that has been fired with a magnum primer. If the neck is smaller after it is sized, which I cannot imagine that it isn't, then check the OAL of the sized brass. You may just need to trim, chamfer, deburr.
     

  3. mrbb

    mrbb Well-Known Member

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    yes, I did check the mouth, shoulder, and right below the shoulder, and the measurements on the fired cases with the mag promers is the same as with the regular primer, as well as my sized cases, over all lenght of the cases is the right lenght, even tried to go shorther, past the shortest sized recommended( just to see if one would work) and it still won't work!, tried to re size the cases by setting the die lower, then lower, till i was affraid of getting a case stuck!! and still won't go!, only place that seem to be a problem is the area around the primmer, the lip, the bolt closes on! it just seems too think! for the bolt to be able to close! it tries to shave brass off theis area , tried to measure the thickness here, but can find no difference, so i am at a lose here! is is because I used the mag primers, or do i have some other problem??
     
  4. Willys46

    Willys46 Well-Known Member

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    Shoulder?

    mrbb,
    Did you see exsesse pressure when shooting them? I would think that the mag primer would have increased pressure and loosened primer pockets or really stiff bolt lifts.

    You said you lowered the die but was affraid of sticking a case. Most FL dies require you to contact the bottom of the die with the shell holder. Is this making contact?

    Next, measure the base to the center line of the shoulder. Halfway for the neck to the body of the case. Stoney point has a specific tool but an empty handgun brass will do the same thing. You are looking to measure the lenght, how dose it compare to a non fired case? If one that you screwed up is longer your not moving your shoulder back when FL sizing. Keep turning the die tell you see you are pushing the shoulder back.

    Just somthing to try.

    Willys
     
  5. rocky_lange

    rocky_lange Well-Known Member

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    Mag Primers

    I had run out of regular primers a while back and loaded both 22-250 and 220 swift with some mag primers. My normal 22-250 load was H380 38gr which is the listed starting point. The Mag primers only made it slightly hotter, about 18fps average. I doubt that unless you were loaded hot in addition to mag primers that you would have blown out the cases that far and if you did, you would have noticed a very sticky bolt.

    I did run into an interesting problem with some 308 brass that sounds alot like what you describe. Do you use your seating die to crimp? I had run my seating die in just slightly too far and pushed the shoulder back ever so slightly causing the case to "mushroom" at the shoulder radius. If you have the lock ring on your seating die screwed down and don't reset each time you seat AND the brass did strech, that could be the cause. Or, like me, you screwed it in too far to get a heavier crimp with the seating die.

    Rocky
     
  6. boomtube

    boomtube Well-Known Member

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    "... tried to re size the cases by setting the die lower, then lower, till i was affraid of getting a case stuck!! and still won't go!,...)

    No case will stick IF it is properly lubed. And it is likely that you do need to lower the FL die some more.

    It seems that most people "adjust" the size die to touch the shell holder with no case in the press. That's a mistake.

    Under the considerable pressures of FL sizing, the press and it's linkages will compress a bit and a gap will often show between the holder and die. Check yours and see if such a gap appears during sizing. If so, adjust the die down until the gap closes, LUBE and size your cases and you should be good to go.

    If you feel a case is about to stick withdraw it, relube and then go at it again. The next effort will be easier.
     
  7. Freebore

    Freebore Well-Known Member

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    Check shoulder bump

    Get your self a set of these to set your dies to just bump the case shoulder back .001 this should take care of your issue as like other before said you are not going into the die far enough to resize the whole case let alone bump the shoulder. You need a set of calipers to use these.
    MidwayUSA - Hornady Lock-N-Load Headspace Gage 5 Bushing Set with Comparator
     
  8. mrbb

    mrbb Well-Known Member

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    thanks guys for all the feedback
    but , I have lowered the die till it touched the shell holder, and then lowered it , an 1/8 a turn, then another, and then another, till it got to the point, of being very hard to turn over the press a full run, Big time cam over, and still the cases will not allow me to close the bolt!
    the load was 2 grains from the max, and the bolt opened freely after fireing these loaded rounds!
    all cases are at1.902 lenth,and even tried going down to 1.750 just to see if i could get one to allow me to close the bolt, and no go!, I colored a case to try to see where it wass causing the problem, and only place i get a mark is on the rim of the case where the bolt grabs it, at this point it is removing brass from where it says 22.205 rem on the case, as if it is just too thick here!!, cleaned the bolt fase/area, to make sure nothing is there, will allow me to close on factory ammo, and cases that i sized,but did not fire with the wrong primmers. so i am believing that the primers are /were the problem, I am now wondering if there is any way for me to save this brass, about 50 cases!, or should i just call it a learning curve and toss them!
    OR am i missing something! as as far as I can tell, primer pockets are cleaned and de-bured( with a rcbs primer pocket former, and de-burer, I set my die so it contacts the shell holder, then lowered it an 1/8 of a turn, then I measured and trimed all cases as needed to 1.902, de burd inside and out of the mouth of the case, primer depth is flush to slightly lower than flush, but these cases will not allow me to close the bolt!
    am i missing something??
    I am not an advid reloader , YET, but wanting to learn as much as possible, I have loaded for several 30 an 338 cal rifles, all with rcbs dies, with no problems, these 22.250 dies are Hornady, am I doing something wrong, and if so, what, and how to fix?
    thanks again
     
  9. mrbb

    mrbb Well-Known Member

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    never used a headspace bushing, how do they work?
     
  10. anachronism

    anachronism Well-Known Member

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    let's start over...

    Do you have any brass that wasn't from this batch, maybe from a previous batch? How does is chamber? It almost sounds like you might have some sort of debris in the chamber, perhaps unburned powder granules or a chunk of bullet jacket. Have you cleaned the rifle and inspected the chamber? Simply using a magnum primer in place of a std primer shouldn't cause you this kind of grief. Better yet, how does once of your unfired rounds from the same batch chamber (be careful)?
     
  11. Hired Gun

    Hired Gun Well-Known Member

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    That load calls for a magnum primer in all my books and with my 22-250 I have been as high as 42 grains behind a 50 grain bullet. I only use magnum primers in every gun I have and have never had an issue with them. I really doubt the use of the magnum primer has anything to do with what is going on here.

    Will the brass set into the bolt behind the extractor when the bolt is out of the action? When you place your brass into the gun are you feeding it from the magazine or just tossing them in there where the extractor has to jump the lip. All my repeating rifles are much harder to close up when the extractor is jumping the rim rather than feeding from the magazine. It could be something up with your extractor. brass shavings could be fouling something and not letting it have full travel.

    If they extracted easy they should go right back into the chamber easy. Have you tried just doing a partial full length resize. Run the die down to the shell holder then back it up 3/4 to 1 full turn. I never bump shoulders and never have trouble. I only use Lee Collet neck dies for all my rifle loading. I do feel a little resistance on the bolt after a few firings but I know that I have a perfectly fitted case for my rifle. Keep your lugs clean and well greased and it will never be a problem. It almost sounds like the brass is being expanded by pushing the shoulders back too far when you are resizing. Try the partial full length size and let us know.
     
  12. mrbb

    mrbb Well-Known Member

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    thanks again for the reply, and as for there being something stuck in the chamber area, the rifle is clean, and chamber is clean, it will close on factory ammo, and never fired brass,
    next, I have tried loading by just inserting, and from the mag well, no difference
    if I install a case into the bolt face, with the bolt out, it will seem to fit same as all the cases I have, can see no difference there, it hold them!
    I have tried both raising the die, and lowering it up/ down up to almost a full turn, and still no go with the cases I fired with the mag primers!, I don't have any just fired cases with the right primmers, but will after tomorrow!
    I will see how they fit in the gun after fireing, and then after I try to resize them with my die, set at 1/4 turn after contact with the shell holder, as that is how I am told it should be!, am I right on this set up of the die?
    if they fit from there, I will have to say that it was the primers that were the problem, but if they don't, is it possible I got a bad die??,
    or could it be something else??
    I will follow up tomorrow after I try the above!
     
  13. happylilcuss

    happylilcuss Well-Known Member

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    I did this same exact thing and had the same problems.. I thought I had everything in my reloading dies set up properly.. Finally I was at a total loss so I started from scratch. I went back and "Re- setup my sizing die then my crimping die" I then ran a couple rounds through and what do ya know.. I had somehow let the crimping die get set a little too deep. this caused a very very very slight hump in the shoulder. (I had calipered the cases prior and could not find the hump all measurements matched factory specs) This caused my bolt to not want to close. Being an old farmer at heart I forced the bolt closed and then decided I better fix the problem... After fixing the sizing die ever so slightly I am now back to putting good rounds down range and my bolt closes smoothly. MRBB I also only shoot mag primers in my 22-250 and I shoot really hot loads. I dont think since your bolt opened easily that you had enough of an overpressure to damage anything. I hope you figure it out though.
     
  14. Hired Gun

    Hired Gun Well-Known Member

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    Do you have any of these cases left that have not been resized or decaped since they were fired? Will they rechamber?

    BTW:
    H380 is the most accurate powder I have ever used in the 22-250 with 50 grain bullets. Whenever someone says they have one that won't shoot I just throw a few together with 38 grains of H-380 with CCI-250 magnum primers topped with my el cheapo Hornady 50 grain SPSX's loaded either 1/4 turn down "about .015" from the rifling or in the case of my 6000+ round Ruger 77V where they will still feed out of the magazine box. In 20 years I have only found 1 rifle that wouldn't shoot 1/2" groups or better with that load. In the winter I have ran as much as 43 grains successfully. My regular summer load is 39 grains with the batch of powder I have right now. One other thing I like about H-380 is how accuratly it flows out of my UniFlo powder measure. Once it's set I pretty much put my scale away and just throw 50 to 100 at a time straight into my cases.

    A Lee Collet neck die quadrupled my case life. Between using the no lube Lee die and being able to throw the charges the 22-250 is my favorite to load for.