1000 yard coyotes

[sigmatero]

I know this gets asked a lot, and I've done quite a bit of homework already, but I figured I would ask...for a first long range varmint gun what's the best caliber with the following in mind...

1. With a reasonable shot placement kill a coyote at 1000 yards.
2. Be fairly flat shooting from 700-1000 yards (not drop a lot of energy).
3. Barrel life of 1500 shots min.
4. Accurate enough to consistantly hit gophers at 1000 yards in the field (some wind, etc) without me having to be a competition quality shooter.
5. Minimal bullet cost, assume I do my own reloading.
6. Open to pretty much any caliber (wildcats, etc) and I'm not scared to fire form, etc.
7. Initial cost of rifle isn't too much of an issue (within reason).

I'm sort of going between a 22-250AI (cheaper bullets?) or .243 WSSM (better wind tolerance)?

Thanks folks, look forward to learning more about this sport.

 

[wildcat]

I would go with a 6x284 or 6mmAI. You should be able to get 1500 rounds out of both chambering as long as you clean the rifle and don't shoot it like a semi-auto.

The 6x284, with a 30"barrel, will push the 87grn V-Max at 3750fps and the 105grn Bullets at around 3450 to 3500fps. Bullets are plentiful and cheap. The 87grn V-Max, at the above mentioned velocity, is devistating on coyotes even at the longer ranges. I would use the 105grn A-Max for shots past 800 yards.

Good luck with your choice and have fun.

Wildcat

 

[sigmatero]

Yaa, that's one of the ones I'm considering. I really like the economy of the .224 sized bullets (leaning towards 22-243) but will be shooting in field conditions (wind, weather) and am worried the little bullets will drift on me. Hence the 6mm option

Though something like a 75 grain A-max in a 22-243 has some great ballistics because it's so long and skinny and if it's nearly the same weight as a 6mm bullet then it should be *less* prone to drift since it has less side area (unless you're shooting the 6mm faster because it will get there sooner and be less prone to drift)?

The cost for the 105 gr 6mm vs the 75 grain .224 A-max is the same at Cabelas, about .20 each.

So that essentially leaves brass and powder. How does each compare for the .243 size and the .264 size?

So you can see I'm pretty torn between .224 and 6mm

One of the "considerations" is that when I ask to hunt on private land I can just say I'm using a "22" if I go with the smaller bullet

Any other considerations? How about recoil- how is each for a full day of sage rat busting?

 

[Flybuster]

Would you expect to get any bullet expansion at 1000 yards with the 87 grain V-max at 6-284 velocities? Or just a pencil hole? I understand they open up well at low velocities, but just how low are we talking about at 1000 yards? Have you shot a coyote that far with your 6-284, Wildcat?

If it was just a pencil hole wound, would it matter if it was a 22 or 243 cal.


I have read some bad things about the 243WSSM. Like the brass was so thick in the neck you had to push them hard just to get the necks to open up. Some people saying they only get 1 or 2 reloads because of this. My friend had nothing but trouble with his Browning A-bolt in .243wssm, sent it back twice they crome lined the chamber the second time I believe. Is this cartridge a complete failure, or what? Someone getting good results with the 243WSSM?

 

[Andy W]

I would think any of the hopped up .243's should do the job. I am currently building a 6mm AI, not for 1000 yard shots, but because I want maximum flop factor on dogs. Good luck killing a yote @ 1000 yards, with the way they are always on the move it should be a challenge. Not unnatainable but almost.

 

[drags]

I would go with the .300 win short mag. as it has good barrel life and you can shoot way out there. Also the hot 7mm's are good but I don't know about the 1500 rds barrel life, and the 6mm AI, 22-250 AI and .243WSSM would be iffy for the barrel life you want.
Drags

 

[sigmatero]

Thanks for all your good suggestions.

I've done some more reading and it looks like the fatter cartridges are indeed a little more efficient. Ones like the WSSM and the 6BR type. When you get to the long cartridges there seems to be more unburned powder and consequently worse barrel life.

I like the looks of the 22-6mm (vs the 22-243) but it seems that the cartridge is so big and long that it isn't very efficient.

Any idea on a fat cartridge that will push a 115grain 6mm A-max 3600-3700 fps? Seems like that would be a great load. Fairly long barrel life, flat shooting, and an efficient burn.

 

[wyojeepeer]

Hi,

You might also want to look at the ballistics for 25-06. It might surprise you.

 

[Catfish]

Killing coyotes at 1,000 yrds. is not easy even with all the best equipment. I shoot a .22-6mm and push an 80 gn at abt. 3,470 fps. At 3,400 fps. the bullet will drop abt 280 in. Infact if you are zeroed at 400 yrds. your bullet will be 11.76 in low at 500 yrds. When you get to 1,000 yrds. you will have abt. that much drop in 25 yrds. so you must have a real good range finder. A 10 mph. cross wind will drift your bullet almost 88 in. or a 1 mph wind would move the bullet almost 9 in. Even if you can measure the wind where you are the wind speed and direction can change several time between you and the target so wind drift is more of an art than a science. Shooting 1,000 yrds. in the field is all together different than shooting 1,000 yrds. at the range. You can walk your bullets in on the range, but a coyote, for some unknow reason, just won`t stand still and let you do that.
I have $ 1,000+ in my gun, another $ 1,000+ in my scope, For a range finder that will do any kind or rangeing at 1,000 yrds. will be another $ 1,000+. You will still need a good spotting scope and a portable bench, or something to shoot from. Do you still want to shoot 1,000 yrds. ????
I can do pretty good in the field to 600 or 700 yrds. My weakest point is being able to range the targets. The range finder I use sell for $ 800 new. Start by tring to get good at 500 yrds. and then work your way out. 500 yrds. you can do with alot of off the shelf rifles. Rember big heavy bullets for the cal. ( high BC bullets) are far better for long range shooting than than lite bullets even if the lite bullets are alot faster.

 

[Flybuster]

Catfish those are all real good points you brought out. When you actually skin a coyote you will see there is not much target area there. Probably just alittle bigger than a rockchuck, at least the coyotes I have seen. I will easily admit that its going to take me at least 3 shots to get on him, probably more. Yeah you might get lucky, you might be a better shot than me. But its still hard. Especially since he's not going to be standing around.

As for a cartridge, Look at F-class for a second. Their main objective is to hit a 5 inch circle at 1000 yards, 15 shots in a row. The Dominant cartridge right now seems to be the 6.5x284 for the open class, good ballistics and tollerable recoil. Lots of cartridges can be this accurate I suppose, but that fact tells me something its winning because it does really well in the wind and is really accurate. Its popular because its easy to load for and the high B.C. bullets available to it.

I would think this would be a really awesome long range coyote gun.

 

[sigmatero]

Sounds like the 6.5x284 is the hot ticket for long ranges. Unfortunately this might be too much solution for not enough problem for my needs since I'll also use the rifle for sage rats and want to be able to shoot repeatedly for longer periods of time without recoil fatigue. From what I've read the 6.5x284 is a pretty hot round in that department.

So I'm still torn between .224 and .243. I need to get access to a ballistics program to play around with some numbers because the .224 75gr A-max has a BC=.435 and the .243 105gr A-max has a BC=.500 which is a fair bit higher (15%). So even at a 9% lower speed (say 3200fps with a .243AI vs 3500fps with a 22-243) the 6mm may do better than the .224 at the longer range.

So that's why I was saying earlier that I would like to get a short/fat round to get more efficiency so that I can still shoot the same speeds but with less powder (and consequently a little less recoil, noise, and barrel fouling/burning).

Anybody looked at the 6mm Thermos Bottle cartridge? Now that's cool! My guess is that this is the trend. Sort of like how fat shaped skis have changed the ski industry.

BTW, anyone know of an online resource that lists noise and/or recoil values for different calibers (including wild cats)?

Thanks to all for hanging in there with all these questions

 

[milanuk]

Would a 6mm BR or 6mm Dasher have enough steam left for a long range 'yote shot? Speaking of which, what is generally considered 'enough' in terms of residual energy on target for a coyote? I've seen rough numbers of 800 ft-lbs for deer, 1000 ft-lbs for elk, but I've never seen a number for coyotes.

 

[Flybuster]

Guys, I had this link in my favorites list. Its a ballistics calculator that tells you the optimal game weight for your bullet. External Ballistics Calculator Thanks Ol' Mike I think I got the link from you. Anyways, for the 6mm dasher(6br IMP.40) shooting a 105 grain bullet at 3050, at 1000 yards you have 558 foot lbs and the calculator says optimal game weight of 61 pounds. So since most of the coyotes I have seen are under that I would say go ahead and shoot one with the right bullet. Probably the 105 amax would be a good choice.

That's the gun I am building right now so thats good to know, since it will be a multi-purpose rifle anyways (varminting,F-class and benchrest). It will be hell on squirrels too! might look into that one Sig.

 

[Flybuster]

Anybody looked at the 6mm Thermos Bottle cartridge? Now that's cool! My guess is that this is the trend.

Yeah and I nearly died laughing... I saw the thermos bottle on Reloadersnest.com awhile back. I hope that isn't a trend!!! Thats one Funky Mama.