Berger 215's in 300 win mag

[jskmtd]

I have been working on a load for my semi-custom 300 win mag. I'm using RWS brass federal 215 primers and H-1000 with the Berger 215 hybrid. I did the seating depth test and found .010 off the lands to be the best. At 200 yards I will have 2 out of 3 within a 1/4" then the 3rd will open it up to 1- 1 1/4" group. The flyer isn't always the same shot. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
Jon

 

[Broz]

Jon, 1" at 200 yards is .5 moa. Not to bad at all. But if you to try to tighten it up , have you tried backing off a grain or 2 and retest? I find RWS brass likes a bit lower charge due to the lower case volume. Just a thought.

Jeff

 

[jskmtd]

Jeff,
Thanks for the reply. I tested up to 75.5 grains and the groups were about 1-1 1/2"s at 100 yards. With the ladder test 73.5 grains down to 72.5 grains looked promising. So hoping for the most velocity I tried the 73.5 grain load and tested for seating depth.
So do you think I should continue to back of on powder charge? My velocity now is between 2850 and 2875 based on impacts on a rock at 1212 yards. I was hoping for around 2950 for velocity. By the way this is a 28" 5c Benchmark barrel.
Thanks
Jon

 

[Broz]

John, I have been a long time learning this but if you had some WW brass I would try it. I know the RWS is great brass and strong as heck but I feel it costs some velocity from the lower case volume. I would almost bet you will be closer to 77 gr + in WW brass. That will get you closer to 2950+. Now that said we all know we need to work up to max when we change component. I understand if you have just bought the RWS but this is the reason I am pulling away from it , velocity. I am not blaming the flyer on the brass, but just think a little more case space could help.. maybe?

So if you could get your hands on just a few pcs of WW to test it might be worth it.

Other than that a primer change to either a FED210 or if ultra cold sub zero temps are in the plan a CCI 250. Sometimes a primer change will bring it all together.

Jeff

 

[jskmtd]

Jeff,
I have some once fired WW brass from a previous 300 win mag I had. I will go load some in .5 grain increments looking for signs of pressure. I will let you know what I find out.
Thanks
Jon

 

[Broz]

Jeff,
I have some once fired WW brass from a previous 300 win mag I had. I will go load some in .5 grain increments looking for signs of pressure. I will let you know what I find out.
Thanks
Jon

Thanks Jon , I will be interested if your findings are the same.

Jeff

 

[MagnumManiac]

John, I have been a long time learning this but if you had some WW brass I would try it. I know the RWS is great brass and strong as heck but I feel it costs some velocity from the lower case volume. I would almost bet you will be closer to 77 gr + in WW brass. That will get you closer to 2950+. Now that said we all know we need to work up to max when we change component. I understand if you have just bought the RWS but this is the reason I am pulling away from it , velocity. I am not blaming the flyer on the brass, but just think a little more case space could help.. maybe?

So if you could get your hands on just a few pcs of WW to test it might be worth it.

Other than that a primer change to either a FED210 or if ultra cold sub zero temps are in the plan a CCI 250. Sometimes a primer change will bring it all together.

Jeff

The smaller case capacity will INCREASE pressure, gaining velocity with lower powder charges. You will see max pressure earlier, so be wary of this. I got caught out with Nosler brass due to less capacity than Rem or Win brass. Velocity was identical at 2grs' s less than either of the other brands.

Without a chrony, doping off shooting rocks is not going to be as accurate, the BC is not constant in all velocity ranges, and you may be off quite a ways from the actual dope.

Cheers.
gun)
I have never seen a 300WinMag work well with standard primers and slow powders. I have had my best results with either WLRM or Fed215 primers.

 

[jskmtd]

Went out and shot a ladder this evening. Here are the results. 75.5, 76.0, and 76.5 grouped 0.75"s at 200 yards. Let me know what you think. This was H-1000 and WW brass.
Thanks,
Jon

 

[Broz]

Looks like there could be a node around 76. It would probably me best to shoot it again to confirm.

Did you see any pressure at 77 gr?

Jeff

 

[Broz]

The smaller case capacity will INCREASE pressure, gaining velocity with lower powder charges. You will see max pressure earlier, so be wary of this. I got caught out with Nosler brass due to less capacity than Rem or Win brass. Velocity was identical at 2grs' s less than either of the other brands.

Without a chrony, doping off shooting rocks is not going to be as accurate, the BC is not constant in all velocity ranges, and you may be off quite a ways from the actual dope.

MM, I agree ,,,but,, It usually takes 3 gr less in RWS brass due to the reduced volume and case fill, pressure shows up earlier. But at some point the larger charge usually over rides the spike from less case volume and the case with more capacity will produce more velocity. How much remains to be seen. An extreme example would be the RUM and 30-378. What I have seen with these Win cases and this exact bullet is RWS 74 gr WW 77 or 78 gr for a max with the WW having more velocity. All rifles are different, reamer throat length and seating depth will play a role here too. So we start low and work up to see what we get.

I do like to use a Chronograph, but in the end the drop are what we care about. I prefer to check drops on a vertical surface like paper or steel, but a vertical rock wall will work too. The advertised G7 BC of the bullet here (215 Berger) has been very accurate through the entire velocity range of the 300 win for us. With several rifles set up and checked, it has been a very good combination. Silly accurate to 12 or 1300 yards and still inside 1 moa at a mile in my rifle. So, as long as we are using a vertical surface to shoot groups, and can measure group center to point of aim with a tape or accurate measure of some sort. I prefer to go with real world data and use my chronographs to get me a close starting point. In the end if the rifle and ballistic app match that is what we really need.

Jeff

 

[jskmtd]

Jeff,
Bolt lift seemed to be a little tight at 78.0 grains. I loaded rounds at 76.0 and 76.5. I will post results after shooting them. Thanks for you input.
Jon

 

[Methow Packer]

I have never used the ladder/node shooting
before. Can you folks explain it a little so I can under stand how it works. I think I see what you do but it would help to read it from you guys. Thanks Ted

 

[Broz]

I have never used the ladder/node shooting
before. Can you folks explain it a little so I can under stand how it works. I think I see what you do but it would help to read it from you guys. Thanks Ted

Ted, all it is, is a way to find the sweet spot where velocity stabilizes for a few grains of charge weight. You can see the loads grouped together around 76 gr.

I am just testing a rifle with 215's this am. I had a load worked up in Lapua / Norma brass but the brass seemed to be way soft to me. I have seen this before with Norma brass. Norma is typically soft, but some runs are way softer. At least that's my opinion. Anyway, I loaded 3 rounds of H-1000 in WW brass and shot them, 76, 77, 78 gr. They went into a .3 group. Two in the same hole one a little left. All 3 with different charges were dead nutz for elevation. I think it is safe to say I am in a "Node" for the rifle and load.

Jon, the 78 gr load seems a tad hot for me to in this rifle. No hard bolt lift but I think there was a slight loss of primer tension when I seated new primers. I am going out now to load some at 77 gr.

I will bet $ in a 28" tube , 77 gr with a 215 Hybrid, in WW brass will get me close to 2950 fps. We will see.

Jeff

 

[Broz]

Loaded up some at 77 gr in WW brass and they shot consistent ragged hole touching groups. The Magneto Speed says 2965 fps for an average.

Jeff