Possible New Bullet Venture

[tangodown]

Hey All,

I talked with Len this afternoon about a company I am thinking about setting up that would make bullets suited to long range hunting, etc.. Len game me permission to get the pulse of the members here about what calibers, weights, and other characteristics folks would want to see used in long range bullets (hunting or otherwise).

So, what kind of calibers would folks be interested in?

What weights per caliber?

Other characteristics such bonded cores? Copper bullets? Bullets with a partial tungsten core?

What would folks expect to pay for a box of 50? (No, they're not free )

Please let me know if there are any other characteristics folks would like to see!

Thanks to one and all!

-- Peter

 

[MudRunner2005]

Peter, I am glad you posted this. There are a few ideas I've had cramping up in the old skull for a while, that I would like to see done, that Berger can't get to right now, because of how backed up they are after this whole Obama gun ban nightmare crap.


.257 caliber, 130gr, VLD style, solid copper, completely bonded HPBT with a long bearing surface for solid rifling contact

.284 (7mm) caliber, 210gr, VLD style, solid copper, completely bonded HPBT with a long bearing surface for solid rifling contact

Those would be the 2 I would be most interested in seeing.

Let me know if you need a test mule... I would love to help in my .257 Wby, and my numerous 7mm caliber rifles.

For a box of 50, I think $30 is a fair price. That's what Nosler sells the Accubonds for, and that's about what 50 Berger bullets would cost.

Personally, I think packaging options of 20, 50, and 100 would be cool. 20 packs for testing and development, and 50 and 100 packs for bulk purchase.

 

[SidecarFlip]

What we really need is another powder extruder........

and primer stamper......

Check out Cutting Edge Bullets. Made to order for you...for a price.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Cutting Edge is overpriced, IMO.

If my only option is to pay out my ***, I'm gonna just keep shooting what I know works.... Just saying.

But I think it would be great to see someone build specialty bullets that don't cost a black market kidney...Wouldn't yall?

 

[Broz]

6mm , 30 cal, and 338 for me. Maximum weight and a true BC that is equal or above what we are now using. Lead core, copper jacket, hollow point with maybe the back 1/3 rd bonded as long as long range consistency and accuracy does not suffer from the bonding.

Jeff

 

[barnesuser28]

6mm , 30 cal, and 338 for me. Maximum weight and a true BC that is equal or above what we are now using. Lead core, copper jacket, hollow point with maybe the back 1/3 rd bonded as long as long range consistency and accuracy does not suffer from the bonding.

Jeff

This^^ I really like the idea of the back 1/3 bonded, its been in my head for a while now. Also possibly a metal or plastic tip.
I would like to see them in 6.5, 7mm, 30, and 338. Maybe a 145-155 grain 6.5, a 185-195 grain 7mm, a 210-240 grain 30 cal, and 300-330 grain 338. The bullets would have to have a higher BC than the 140 berger VLD for the 6.5, 180 vld for 7mm, higher or equal too BC to the 210-230 berger targets in 30 cal, and higher BC than the 300 grain berger OTM in 338 cal. Good luck!

 

[Broz]

No plastic tips for me please, and I am not that crazy about metal tips either. Metal is not a deal breaker, just not my personal preference. A consistent hollow point leading to a good sized void will do me fine.

Jeff

 

[barnesuser28]

No plastic tips for me please, and I am not that crazy about metal tips either. Metal is not a deal breaker, just not my personal preference. A consistent hollow point leading to a good sized void will do me fine.

Jeff

I just mentioned the tips because a lot of times the meplat can get pretty messy and inconsistent (thinking SMK).

 

[Truc]

6.5 and 7mm bullets in medium to heavy weights, BUT, first and foremost an accurate bullet with excellent jackets. Must be Benchrest quality in order to hit anything way out there and is why Bergers shoot well they use J4 jackets. Be able to expand down to 1500fps, Oh and the cost would be nice at .50 each maybe .75 if exceptional

 

[SidecarFlip]

Cutting Edge is overpriced, IMO.

If my only option is to pay out my ***, I'm gonna just keep shooting what I know works.... Just saying.

But I think it would be great to see someone build specialty bullets that don't cost a black market kidney...Wouldn't yall?

Yes they are and yes, I buy them. I expect a turned projectile to be more than a swaged one.

Jeff should take a look at them. The Raptor series comes with removable tips so you can shoot a ballistic tip or a hollow point, your choice. Screw it in or unscrew it.....

The other thing I like about them is the projectile don't ride the rifling at all. The bands ride the rifling so you get higher velocity and less deposits in the barrel from the bullet itself.

I'd like to see a new manufacturer or at least one thats receptive to ideas and actually follows up on them. My question is, 'Is there room for another manufacturer of bullets to be profitable? and moreso, will the market continue?

It seems that the market is in a politically driven flux, shortages of this and that, can't get this and can't get that and wait times for even die sets is approaching stupid levels, case in point, I've been waiting on a die set ordered from a major online retailer who has been waiting for the maker to manufacture the set for 5 going on 6 months now. Lead time is one thing, inordinate lead times are another.

It almost appears that therer is a concerted effort to curtail the reloading market by drying up supplies, while (interestingly) factory ammunition is getting more and more readily available. I just don't get it.

As a rule, I don't go through boxes of bullets when hunting so I can use the high priced stuff. I still shoot swaged bullets for practice. I cartainly can't afford turned ones at 65 bucks a box of 50....amd with propellant/primer issues, even practice has been limited

I'd go practice with my 22 but I haven't seen 22 LR's for sale for months.

I'm not trying to derail the thread, just stating what I see in relationship to our sport.

I guess my comment distills down to, 'Is there room for another player and can that player capture enough of the marketshare to be profitable?' After, unlike the church, a business has to be profitable to remain in business.

 

[SidecarFlip]

I just mentioned the tips because a lot of times the meplat can get pretty messy and inconsistent (thinking SMK).

Yep. One has to be very careful seating SGK and SMK's. I've been know to 'adjust the tip with a pocketknife on ocassion......

 

[SidecarFlip]

I'm going to add that I'd like to see a reasonably priced 45 aqnd 50 caliber (non saboted) and saboted muzzleloading projectile, preferrably ballistic tipped that don't break the bank.

**** 50 caliber projectiles (saboted) are stupid expensive with the non saboted projectiles are much worse.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Hey All,

I talked with Len this afternoon about a company I am thinking about setting up that would make bullets suited to long range hunting, etc.. Len game me permission to get the pulse of the members here about what calibers, weights, and other characteristics folks would want to see used in long range bullets (hunting or otherwise).

So, what kind of calibers would folks be interested in?

What weights per caliber?

Other characteristics such bonded cores? Copper bullets? Bullets with a partial tungsten core?

What would folks expect to pay for a box of 50? (No, they're not free )

Please let me know if there are any other characteristics folks would like to see!

Thanks to one and all!

-- Peter

Peter, I had to grin when I saw this thread We have been through a few different bullet makers here in these forums over the years. I still have some of the remnants the HAT's. In all sincerity, I hope you can pull it off

Do you have a type of construction already in mind or are you looking for inputs on that as well as cal, weight, etc.?

There are already some very accomplished bullet makers out there whose offerings are going to be tough to beat in the long range world like, Berger, JLK, Matrix and Cutting Edge. I just don't see how you are going to compete with them?

The Hybrid design by Brian Litz and Berger is about as good as it's going to get in an accurate, high BC cup and core bullet. They have most of the bases covered already with a few holes that they are working on filling.

How about a bullet that looked like a Hybrid on the outside (for high BC) and a Partition on the inside (for predictable and reliable performance)... It needs to be able to hold up under extreme velocities and open reliably down to 1800 fps or lower. 1600 fps would be very good. The nose should completely disintegrate leaving a blunt flat frontal in front of the rest of the body (approx 2/3rds of mass intact)

We don't need any "medium" weight bullets in LR. There are already myriads of them offered by other manufacturers. What the vast majority of us need are high BC bullets in the 243 -338 cal range that stabilize in 7", 8", 9" and 10" twists.

A narrow HP meplat like we see in the Bergers etc., is best, and cheapest to produce. Like Broz, I would prefer a metal tip to a plastic tip, but no tip at all would be best.

Best Regards

 

[Beng]

There is a lack of heavy bullets in .257 and .264 caliber. 140gr respectivly 160gr in .264 would be nice. Long boat tail, long tangent or hybrid ogive, bonded body undbonded nose. A hybrid ogive might be a bit complicated to design though, also I'm not sure if Berger holds any legal claims to this design.
There aren't any heavy 8mm bullets either, superheavy .308 bullets -250-260gr- could be nice too, I don't believe though that there would be enough demand.

Perhaps .264" caliber would be a good starting point. There are commercial offerings as heavy as 160gr already, which are pretty popular at least here in Europe. All those offerings are of a blunt nose, flat base design though, a more modern design should be able to gain some initial market share. If the design is good and easy to produce, perhaps even some of the bigger manufacturers like Norma could get interested.