X-Bolt or Model 70?

[Buano]

Which I would recommend depends on what you will do with it. (I have both Browning & Winchester rifles, so this is not owner's bias.)

Out of the box, the Browning has a smoother action, a 60° bolt throw so scope/knuckle clearance isn't an issue, and is apt to be more accurate than the Winchester. If you are never going to make major modifications, the Browning is definitely what I recommend.

The POTENTIAL for the Model 70 is greater if you, like many on this forum, will be customizing the rifle sometime in the future. Gunsmiths love working on the Winchester Model 70 (and the Remington Model 700) as there are lots of aftermarket parts to fit them. Gunsmiths also have lots of practice as many need "tweaking" to make them shoot well. The Model 70 also has the Winchester 3-position safety, which I believe is the best safety system there is.

So, if you will keep it stock, go Browning all the way. If you will make this a project gun, go Winchester. (In case you didn't realize it, these are both made by the same company.)

 

[Bart B]

If the accuracy an action can produce is important, consider the fact that pre-'64 classic M70 ones have been held by wood stocks with a Hart barrel screwed into them that have shot smaller test groups than some of the current long range benchrest actions.

 

[Dalebow]

mod 70 is what I bought and had $2100 worth of custom work done to it, I just got my x-bolt 7mm-08 and have to say if you just want to scope and shoot get the Browning

 

[INTJ1]

Which I would recommend depends on what you will do with it. (I have both Browning & Winchester rifles, so this is not owner's bias.)

Out of the box, the Browning has a smoother action, a 60° bolt throw so scope/knuckle clearance isn't an issue, and is apt to be more accurate than the Winchester. If you are never going to make major modifications, the Browning is definitely what I recommend.

The POTENTIAL for the Model 70 is greater if you, like many on this forum, will be customizing the rifle sometime in the future. Gunsmiths love working on the Winchester Model 70 (and the Remington Model 700) as there are lots of aftermarket parts to fit them. Gunsmiths also have lots of practice as many need "tweaking" to make them shoot well. The Model 70 also has the Winchester 3-position safety, which I believe is the best safety system there is.

So, if you will keep it stock, go Browning all the way. If you will make this a project gun, go Winchester. (In case you didn't realize it, these are both made by the same company.)

If you were talking about the M-70 Classics with their spotty quality I would agree, but the new M-70s have excellent build quality, are very smooth, have no scope clearance issues, and have developed a reputation for excellent accuracy out of the box. Not to mention the M-70s are extremely reliable and durable.

I completely agree that for a built rifle, the M-70 and Rem 700 are top choices.

 

[brentc]

I've seen issues with the QC of new Haven Winchesters as well. But the FN made M70 is a completely different animal.

Last year I put aside all my angst against Winchester and purchased an FN made Extreme Weather in 300 WSM. I was drawn to this rifle due to the CRF action bedded into an aluminum blocked Bell and Carlson stock. I started by doing minimal work on the trigger and mounted a Zeiss 4.4-14 in Timney lightweights and went to work. I've worked up several 1/2 MOA loads with different bullets and combinations. For a pack rifle this combo is hard to beat.

The only con is the MOA trigger. I wasn't able to adjust it to my liking, but with Ernie's lighter weight spring and the adjustment screw backed out it's acceptable. Timney has said they will have a replacement trigger for the new Win. MOA trigger in the coming year.

 

[rscott5028]

If you have to ask, then you probably haven't had enough opportunity/experience to tell the difference anyway. It would be beneficial if you could find a way to shoot both before committing.

The M70 is a better rifle and has significantly more potential for customization for long range hunting.

You may not be planning to customize, but the sport is addictive and it's only a matter of time before you're buying more rifles and/or upgrading what you have.

I have been unimpressed by the X-Bolt's that I've handled and shot. Nonetheless, they can be effective and they do have a loyal following as well.

Welcome aboard and best of luck!!
-- richard

 

[ishootkittens]

HES VERY NEW to the game.

The X-bolt is just what I needed for my situation. From talking to the guy over PM's it seems as if we aren't all that different.

I like the X-bolt because it is lighter. Because I hunt some pretty sticky situations and believe it or not there are still hunters out there who dont use benches out in the middle of a field or on top of a ridge somewhere with a pair of binoculars. The lightweight makes for an easy carry and the shorter than normal barrel makes it a definite "swinger" in a hairy situation or if I have walk a long way. The dura-coat makes for a comfortable carry as well. Its a soft material that brings new meaning to the word grip. Of couse, I am a composite stock kinda guy. Wood is too pretty to hunt with in my opinion..especially in the hunting conditions around here. Naturally the ultimate shadow was the Winchester I was attracted too when I was looking to purchase my last rifle. The grips on the stock felt so cheap in my opinion and the other composite stock models had a stainless barrel. Also a no-no around here.. to much glare I dont care HOW many companies swear that they are NON glaring stainless (except for tikkas.. they are nice)..

The 60 degree bolt throw and the X-style mounting system immediately made browning one of my top choices. THEEEN I held one and got to play with the detachable mag which in my opinion is THE best detachable mag on the market. I'm also a firm believer of a 2 position safety while hunting. I dont like the winchester safeties at all. The glass bedding was also great for a factory rifle! The performance is probably the same...the accuracy relies on the shooter in my opinion. Precision means different things to different people and people are better loaders and shooters than others. But for me I chose the X-bolt over the Wincester not in performance, but for FEATURES and FEEL. Sometimes that is the ONLY difference in two rifles. The name you slap on the box.. and the looks/feel. In this situation..after hearing that the new m70's are Godly and amazing and super...I think that you should go with whichever FEELS better and fits your situation whether your hunting hogs at 40 yards or elk at 674 yards.

Another thing.. this guy.. (If you had ever talked to him).. this guy is looking to get a .270 or a .30-06. Hes not going for a 6.5X.284 custom with a 30 inch barrel and a nightforce scope. Hes your everyday hunter with everyday situations. I doubt he will need a jeweled bolt or a custom trigger. I doubt he will need an adjustable stock or a $500 muzzle break. He's your run of the mill hunters hunter. No fanciness required. So as it has been said.. the X-bolt is better out of the box. I may be 100% wrong about Texanhunter.. but I think he just wants to get out in the field and kill something. Hes not looking to be a competitive shooting champion. The boy just wants to pop some hogs along with some whitetail! So now you guys understand that I just think that the X-bolt is better suited for...a strict hunter.

 

[Buano]

HES VERY NEW to the game.

The X-bolt is just what I needed for my situation. From talking to the guy over PM's it seems as if we aren't all that different.

I like the X-bolt because it is lighter. Because I hunt some pretty sticky situations and believe it or not there are still hunters out there who dont use benches out in the middle of a field or on top of a ridge somewhere with a pair of binoculars. The lightweight makes for an easy carry and the shorter than normal barrel makes it a definite "swinger" in a hairy situation or if I have walk a long way. The dura-coat makes for a comfortable carry as well. Its a soft material that brings new meaning to the word grip. Of couse, I am a composite stock kinda guy. Wood is too pretty to hunt with in my opinion..especially in the hunting conditions around here. Naturally the ultimate shadow was the Winchester I was attracted too when I was looking to purchase my last rifle. The grips on the stock felt so cheap in my opinion and the other composite stock models had a stainless barrel. Also a no-no around here.. to much glare I dont care HOW many companies swear that they are NON glaring stainless (except for tikkas.. they are nice)..

The 60 degree bolt throw and the X-style mounting system immediately made browning one of my top choices. THEEEN I held one and got to play with the detachable mag which in my opinion is THE best detachable mag on the market. I'm also a firm believer of a 2 position safety while hunting. I dont like the winchester safeties at all. The glass bedding was also great for a factory rifle! The performance is probably the same...the accuracy relies on the shooter in my opinion. Precision means different things to different people and people are better loaders and shooters than others. But for me I chose the X-bolt over the Wincester not in performance, but for FEATURES and FEEL. Sometimes that is the ONLY difference in two rifles. The name you slap on the box.. and the looks/feel. In this situation..after hearing that the new m70's are Godly and amazing and super...I think that you should go with whichever FEELS better and fits your situation whether your hunting hogs at 40 yards or elk at 674 yards.

Another thing.. this guy.. (If you had ever talked to him).. this guy is looking to get a .270 or a .30-06. Hes not going for a 6.5X.284 custom with a 30 inch barrel and a nightforce scope. Hes your everyday hunter with everyday situations. I doubt he will need a jeweled bolt or a custom trigger. I doubt he will need an adjustable stock or a $500 muzzle break. He's your run of the mill hunters hunter. No fanciness required. So as it has been said.. the X-bolt is better out of the box. I may be 100% wrong about Texanhunter.. but I think he just wants to get out in the field and kill something. Hes not looking to be a competitive shooting champion. The boy just wants to pop some hogs along with some whitetail! So now you guys understand that I just think that the X-bolt is better suited for...a strict hunter.

Well said. Sometimes posters here fall into the trap of assuming all members of this list are focussed on shooting their game at 1,000 yards or more, while lots of members are simply hunters who want to hear from "the experts" about their particular hunting situation.

I don't think the original post made it clear what ranges this guy was planning to shoot so my post answered both ways, go with the X-Bolt if it's to stay "stock" & go Model 70 if it may become a project gun.

 

[Dalebow]

The xbolt is plenty gun to 500yards, for any hunter.
if we didnt spend som much on guns we could do more hunts........its an addiciton.

 

[Bart B]

Has anyone with an X-bolt and more than one magazine ever noticed a difference in zeros for different magazines?

I ask because the military's M14 and civilian M1A typically have a 1 MOA difference in zeros on their sights across several magazines. In competition, folks shooting these arms get matched sets of magazines for each load.

Such is life when the minute dimensional differences in magazines cause the barreled action to whip differently for each one caused by the way they fit into the receiver and stock mechanics.

 

[Browninglover1]

Has anyone with an X-bolt and more than one magazine ever noticed a difference in zeros for different magazines?

I ask because the military's M14 and civilian M1A typically have a 1 MOA difference in zeros on their sights across several magazines. In competition, folks shooting these arms get matched sets of magazines for each load.

Such is life when the minute dimensional differences in magazines cause the barreled action to whip differently for each one caused by the way they fit into the receiver and stock mechanics.

I highly doubt you would notice a difference in POI from switching between factory mags. They don't even attach to the action of the rifle directly, they are held in place by the trigger guard assembly (which is held in place by the two action screws) but I don't see how they would cause any changes in how the rifle shoots. Have you ever had a Ruger 10/22 or an AR15 shoot different with different mags? Not saying they couldn't change POI but all the guns I've shot had no difference at all.

 

[rscott5028]

HES VERY NEW to the game.

The X-bolt is just what I needed for my situation. From talking to the guy over PM's it seems as if we aren't all that different.

I like the X-bolt because it is lighter. Because I hunt some pretty sticky situations and believe it or not there are still hunters out there who dont use benches out in the middle of a field or on top of a ridge somewhere with a pair of binoculars. The lightweight makes for an easy carry and the shorter than normal barrel makes it a definite "swinger" in a hairy situation or if I have walk a long way. The dura-coat makes for a comfortable carry as well. Its a soft material that brings new meaning to the word grip. Of couse, I am a composite stock kinda guy. Wood is too pretty to hunt with in my opinion..especially in the hunting conditions around here. Naturally the ultimate shadow was the Winchester I was attracted too when I was looking to purchase my last rifle. The grips on the stock felt so cheap in my opinion and the other composite stock models had a stainless barrel. Also a no-no around here.. to much glare I dont care HOW many companies swear that they are NON glaring stainless (except for tikkas.. they are nice)..

The 60 degree bolt throw and the X-style mounting system immediately made browning one of my top choices. THEEEN I held one and got to play with the detachable mag which in my opinion is THE best detachable mag on the market. I'm also a firm believer of a 2 position safety while hunting. I dont like the winchester safeties at all. The glass bedding was also great for a factory rifle! The performance is probably the same...the accuracy relies on the shooter in my opinion. Precision means different things to different people and people are better loaders and shooters than others. But for me I chose the X-bolt over the Wincester not in performance, but for FEATURES and FEEL. Sometimes that is the ONLY difference in two rifles. The name you slap on the box.. and the looks/feel. In this situation..after hearing that the new m70's are Godly and amazing and super...I think that you should go with whichever FEELS better and fits your situation whether your hunting hogs at 40 yards or elk at 674 yards.

Another thing.. this guy.. (If you had ever talked to him).. this guy is looking to get a .270 or a .30-06. Hes not going for a 6.5X.284 custom with a 30 inch barrel and a nightforce scope. Hes your everyday hunter with everyday situations. I doubt he will need a jeweled bolt or a custom trigger. I doubt he will need an adjustable stock or a $500 muzzle break. He's your run of the mill hunters hunter. No fanciness required. So as it has been said.. the X-bolt is better out of the box. I may be 100% wrong about Texanhunter.. but I think he just wants to get out in the field and kill something. Hes not looking to be a competitive shooting champion. The boy just wants to pop some hogs along with some whitetail! So now you guys understand that I just think that the X-bolt is better suited for...a strict hunter.

Well... one thing's for certain. Browning proponents are certainly passionate about their firearms.

Browning, Savage, Remington, and others will do the job. But, the Win M70 is a rifelman's rifle... The 50 Best Guns Ever Made | Field & Stream

Go with whichever feels best and don't look back. You can always add more to your collection, or trade up.

-- richard

 

[ishootkittens]

hahah the riflemans rifle...

Winchester is a "rifleman"s rifle"

Browning is the "best there is"

Benelli is "Simply Perfect"

Remington is "Rugged, Durable, Dependable"

And savage is the "definition of accuracy"

BUT WHAT THE HELL DOES IT ALL MEAN?!

Not ****...to anyone who understands marketing...

 

[Buano]

hahah the riflemans rifle...

Winchester is a "rifleman"s rifle"

Browning is the "best there is"

Benelli is "Simply Perfect"

Remington is "Rugged, Durable, Dependable"

And savage is the "definition of accuracy"

BUT WHAT THE HELL DOES IT ALL MEAN?!

Not ****...to anyone who understands marketing...

There was a time 60-odd years ago when the Model 70 may have actually been the best there was, at least in the average American gun shop. It was generally what the "serious" riflemen turned to, yes it was THE "rifleman"s rifle".

Now we have Sako 75s & 85, Savage rifles, and a dozen odd "semi-custom" guns that routinely outperform what the original Model 70 was capable of. We have the Browning A-Bolts & X-Bolts that have learned from the old Model 70 and the Weatherby Mark-V then added a few new twists to produce a very sweet factory gun.

At the same time, the Model 70 has been upgraded so a shooter is unlikely to get a face full of burnt powder if a case fails (something the original Model 70 was notorious for).

Both lines now offer all-weather versions with composite stocks. Both guns have triggers that leave "room for improvement", but both triggers are better than what was generally available anywhere 60 years ago.

Times have definitely changed. Guns have changed. I most definitely agree it's time to stop thinking in terms of what gun line was "the best" 30, 40 or 50 years ago when making recommendations for a modern gun-shop purchase, unless the person is shopping used firearms.

Today's Model 70 is a sweet gun that is likely to shoot a .75-1.5" group at 100 yards with good factory ammunition. Today's X-Bolt will likely shoot a .5"-1" group at 100 yards direct from the box. Yes, both models occasionally produce factory rifles that shoot 1-hole groups, but that is rare. Occasionally there is a Model 70 that won't shoot a 2" group without attention from a gunsmith. I've never heard of a Browning X-Bolt that wouldn't shoot a 1.5" group. Out of the box, an X-Bolt will likely outshoot a Model 70, while a fully customized Model 70 should shoot at least a 1/2" group that an X-Bolt is unlikely to beat. Stock, the X-Bolt is a better gun while the Model 70 may become a better gun with enough effort, time & money. Which is better for this man depends on whether the gun will stay stock or be "modified".