Topgun 30-06
Well-Known Member
FYI you are telling a guy to violate the law because FMJ ammo is againt the law to hunt big game with almost everywhere in the US!!! That's not too good for a first post on the site!
223 for Deer
- Thread starter muddycreek
- Start date
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First of all I am assuming that MuddyCreek is not an illiterate moron and that he will read the hunting regs for the area he hunts. Where I hunt it is perfectly legal to use 223 fmjs and many people do, including myself for probably 20 years. I am not saying he should use larger caliber fmjs on deer as they do not destabilize anywhere near as dramatically as 223 does[I know because I tried it briefly] although even they would work with strictly brain or spine shots at close range. Just trying to add to his body of knowledge. Main things to remember are that velocity needs to be high enough so 200 yards is probably a good limit, depending on barrel length and how well you can shoot. I personally have killed many at 300 yards and some maybe a little farther with this inexpensive ammo.
Topgun 30-06
Well-Known Member
Nobody intimated he was or that you are! May I ask what state you are in that allows it because they are few and far between and you have killed many of what at 300 yards with them?
Perhaps you did not read my first post carefully enough wherein I said that I used them on caribou. I have seen nothing in the AK reg. book that prohibits their use. Most of what I have killed are cows and yearlings in the winter and they are approximately deer size. I would go so far as to say that many of the hunters I know would laugh if you told them that a 223 was too small for caribou.
You can shoot a 223 in SC. I've killed several with my match grade AR-15 with 69gr Sierra's out to 200 yds. I friend of mind has a son who is 14 and he shoots the 223 short mag with 55 gr BT's. The kid has killed close to 50 whitetails out to 400 yds. Just think about who the 223 was designed for. The military has killed thousand of men with the 223, so why not a deer? I friend of my father manages a large plantation and he has killed 600-700 whitetails with a 22 Hornet. It's all about ones ability to shoot precise.
Txhillbilly
Well-Known Member
It always amazes me when someone mentions shooting deer with a 223 or similar caliber rifle,the know it alls that say Don't do it-It's unethical!
Every year,thousands of people kill them with arrows,and you don't cry foul about that.I have never seen any arrow put down a deer sized animal in it's tracks.They usually run off 100-300 yards before they die,if it's a well placed shot
A 223 will kill whitetail all day long,if you can place a shot in a kill zone.It all comes down to using the right type of bullet-not the caliber-and being able to shoot your rifle.
I can't count how many times I've seen guy's with large 30 caliber weapons wound animals,because they can't shoot worth a ****.
I like to shoot the Sierra 65gr Gameking,as well as the Speer 70gr soft point.They will drop deer all day long,when used in the proper distances.
I wouldn't take a shot on whitetail with a 223 at over 200-250 yards,personally.
Every year,thousands of people kill them with arrows,and you don't cry foul about that.I have never seen any arrow put down a deer sized animal in it's tracks.They usually run off 100-300 yards before they die,if it's a well placed shot
A 223 will kill whitetail all day long,if you can place a shot in a kill zone.It all comes down to using the right type of bullet-not the caliber-and being able to shoot your rifle.
I can't count how many times I've seen guy's with large 30 caliber weapons wound animals,because they can't shoot worth a ****.
I like to shoot the Sierra 65gr Gameking,as well as the Speer 70gr soft point.They will drop deer all day long,when used in the proper distances.
I wouldn't take a shot on whitetail with a 223 at over 200-250 yards,personally.
Topgun 30-06
Well-Known Member
If they are so great on deer, why is Texas one of just a very few states that allow anything less than a .243? Bullet construction is definitely a big part of the equation, but I call BS when people start stating caliber doesn't make a big difference. Fact---a bigger hole is going to kill an animal quicker and leave a better blood trail if it takes off than a small one! PS: IMO comparing any gun to an arrow that is designed to cause death by shutting down the cardivascualr by bleeding is not a good argument.
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Txhillbilly
Well-Known Member
Topgun 30-06,I'm not saying that a 223 is the choice caliber for hunting deer,just that they are more than capable of doing the job at a reasonable distance,with a bullet designed to penetrate and expand.
Oh,And just how does a bullet not compare to an arrow? As far as I know,bullets don't kill animals by Blunt force trauma,they do it by making things Bleed,just as a broadhead does.
Oh,And just how does a bullet not compare to an arrow? As far as I know,bullets don't kill animals by Blunt force trauma,they do it by making things Bleed,just as a broadhead does.
Topgun 30-06
Well-Known Member
Actually your last sentence is way off base, so you better read up on things. An arrow, when placed in the heart/lung area where it is designed, kills by bleeding and shutting down the cardiovascular system. That's why it takes a short time for the animal to expire. A bullet generally kills by hydrostatic shock to the major systems of the body and IS basically killing exactly the way you say it doesn't. That's why using a small caliber that doesn't deliver enough foot/lbs. of energy into the animal at any given distance isn't a good idea because then the animal can go quite a ways and may be lost. If you watch an animal hit by an arrow, it's like they got stung by a bee and they don't even realize what has happened, whereas a loud gunshot and the force with which a bullet hits it will obviously put it into an all out run for as far as it can go. Read up on it because you obviously aren't quite up on things like a hunter should be as far how how various things kill.
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bigngreen
Well-Known Member
A 223 will do a fine job for kids, just pick the right bullet for the job and have them shoot it till they are proficient with it. Post #20 and #21 fairly well says it all!!!
Oh almost forgot a 22 cal is legal in Montana, as it should be!
Oh almost forgot a 22 cal is legal in Montana, as it should be!
Topgun 30-06
Well-Known Member
If you think that mess on entry in post#21 is good, then we will definitely agree to disagree!
scenarshooter
Active Member
Agree 100%....I've killed a ton of big game with a .220 swift and I'm not talking about doe whitetails and antelope....I've got pics....
bigngreen
Well-Known Member
That mess will take under 30 seconds to clean up with very little loss of meat due to the fact most of that is blood shot that is contained in the seam which is easily removed, loss of meat would be around 1.5 lbs max, other than that it looks like a very dead deer with a large hole that likely blew a bunch of life out of it!!
MrMajestic
Well-Known Member
Quality bullets, accurate shot placement, shots limited to caliber's effective range. Sounds like what every ethical hunter should do. I seen guys that shouldn't be deer hunting with a howitzer and hunters that I'm proud to associate with regardless of what they shoot. I have never been presented a shot when hunting with my AR but felt confident with it as long as the above are adhered to. IMHO
