300 Norma (or NMI) 230 Berger Hybrids real velocities

[huckfin]

I know you want data for the 230s but I loaded the 220 hybrids with retumbo in my 300norma w/26" barrel and was only getting 2875. That was a 1/2 moa hand load but it was only maybe 1.5 grains from a max load. I'm hear others get better velocity but I think with my chamber/Sammi throat and barrel I just had a slow rifle.

 

[Rick Richard]

Ryan Pierce 300 NMI
26 inch Proof barrel
N570 91.5 .030 OTL
CCI primer
5 shot average 3087 fps
ES 9
SD 4

 

[Mike D Texas]

Ryan Pierce 300 NMI
26 inch Proof barrel
N570 91.5 .030 OTL
CCI primer
5 shot average 3087 fps
ES 9
SD 4

This is more along the lines I was expecting with the 300 Norma Improved. QL calculated that at 3068 so not too far off.

What is your COAL with this setup?

 

[Mike D Texas]

I know you want data for the 230s but I loaded the 220 hybrids with retumbo in my 300norma w/26" barrel and was only getting 2875. That was a 1/2 moa hand load but it was only maybe 1.5 grains from a max load. I'm hear others get better velocity but I think with my chamber/Sammi throat and barrel I just had a slow rifle.

I have considered the 220 LRHT as well. That does seem slow.

 

[waveslayer]

Here's what I'm running with actual data.

1) 300 Norma with 230 Bergers, N570 out of 26" I'm getting 3024 fps

2) 300 PRC out of a 28" tube with 230 gAy Tips, I'm getting 2875 fps with RL26

3) 300 WM with 215 Bergers, using H1000 out of 26" tube I'm getting 2894fps

4) Lazzeroni Warbird with Retumbo and H100 out of 26" tube running 215's getting 3124 fps usually I get 7-8 firings

5) not sure this helps 22" tube with .338 Norma AI using 300 gr bullets I'm getting 2742 fps

 

[VLD Pilot]

Here's what I'm running with actual data.

1) 300 Norma with 230 Bergers, N570 out of 26" I'm getting 3024 fps

2) 300 PRC out of a 28" tube with 230 gAy Tips, I'm getting 2875 fps with RL26

3) 300 WM with 215 Bergers, using H1000 out of 26" tube I'm getting 2894fps

4) Lazzeroni Warbird with Retumbo and H100 out of 26" tube running 215's getting 3124 fps usually I get 7-8 firings

5) not sure this helps 22" tube with .338 Norma AI using 300 gr bullets I'm getting 2742 fps

Buddy's getting 2850 with 250 ATips with his 300 PRC. Not a hot load but warm. 26" barrel. Hard to go by everyone's personal experience. Any of the 3-4 magnum 30s rock. Pick your poison. I think we all know the order they are in performance wise. Some guys just get crazy with pushing some of them.

 

[Rick Richard]

This is more along the lines I was expecting with the 300 Norma Improved. QL calculated that at 3068 so not too far off.

What is your COAL with this setup?

@ 3.585 Overall length

 

[Jcook02]

I have two guys I hunt with that both shoot Norma Impr. They both got the 230's to 3150 but settled right around 3100 for their accuracy nodes. My 300 RUM best accuracy was at 2900 before I started hitting pressures with H1000. Will try N570 if I can find a few more pounds.

 

[Mike D Texas]

Here's what I'm running with actual data.

1) 300 Norma with 230 Bergers, N570 out of 26" I'm getting 3024 fps

2) 300 PRC out of a 28" tube with 230 gAy Tips, I'm getting 2875 fps with RL26

3) 300 WM with 215 Bergers, using H1000 out of 26" tube I'm getting 2894fps

4) Lazzeroni Warbird with Retumbo and H100 out of 26" tube running 215's getting 3124 fps usually I get 7-8 firings

5) not sure this helps 22" tube with .338 Norma AI using 300 gr bullets I'm getting 2742 fps

Very helpful and reflects that data I expected. Thanks!

 

[7.62 Gunner]

I'm wanting to build a 30 caliber magnum and I keep waffling back and forth over just sticking with a tried & true 300 Win Mag, throated long, 30 Nosler throated long or 300 Norma mag (or improved).

I ran some hypothetical numbers through Quickload, all using 230 Hybrids, N570 powder and a 26" barrel. For those of you that are familiar with QL I used the same weighting factor of .5 even though the Nosler and Norma are probably more overbore than the 300 Win Mag.

I was quite surprised to see how little difference there was in velocity.

• 300 Win Mag - 83.3 grains - expected velocity 2,940fps
• 30 Nosler - 88.4 grains - expected velocity 2987 fps (6.12% powder increase, 1.6% velocity increase)
• 300 Norma - 90.2 grains - expected velocity 2991fps (8.28% powder increase, 1.73% velocity increase)
• 300 Norma Mag Improved - 94.5 grains - expected velocity 3009 fps (13.45% powder increase, 2.35% velocity increase)

Keep in mind the 300 WM & the 300 Norma have a lower listed max pressure than the Nosler so I'm sure that contributes to their lower velocities.

I would like to hear from folks that have a 300 Norma or 300 NMI as to what real velocities your are seeing when using the 230 Hybrids.

I'm trying to decide if the modest velocity gain (calculated) is worth the extra cost of the Lapua receiver, brass and the recoil penalty over the old school 300 Win Mag.

If the Norma is more overbore and I change the weighting factor to .4, the spread jumps quite a bit. 300 NMI - 95.6 grains - expected velocity jumps to 3068fps (14.77% more powder, 4.35% velocity increase).

That's 128fps faster than the 300 Win Mag but at the expense of 12.3 more grains of powder.

Thoughts?

I've owned and compared a 300 wm, 300prc, 30 SM (waste of time for 1 grain improvement), 30 NM, and now a 30 Nos.
All had 26" custom throated barrels except my 30 Nos which is 24".

Here's my data just before pressure signs showed up.
300 PRC 225 eldm H1000- 2890
300 Prc 215 N570- 3025

30 SM 215 H1000- 3000
30 SM 225 eldm H1000- 2930

300 NM 230 hybrid retumbo- 2970
300 NM 215 h1000- 3050

30 Nos (24" barrel) 220 LRHT h1000- 3000
30 Nos 245 berger H1000- 2850
30 nos 225 eldm h1000- 2950

Unless you're chasing ultimate velocity the 30 Nos is my favorite without a doubt.
ADG case capacity is around 100-101 grains while the 300 NM lapua is 103, the prc is 95 grains with ADG, and the 30 SM got to a whopping 96..
The 300NM case stretches a stupid amount and needed trimmed every other firing, I'd do the 300 NMI 40 degree shoulder version if you're set on that case.
And if you don't want to handload the 300 PRC makes the most sense, although it's really not any faster than a 300 WM.

 

[Mike D Texas]

I've owned and compared a 300 wm, 300prc, 30 SM (waste of time for 1 grain improvement), 30 NM, and now a 30 Nos.
All had 26" custom throated barrels except my 30 Nos which is 24".

Here's my data just before pressure signs showed up.
300 PRC 225 eldm H1000- 2890
300 Prc 215 N570- 3025

30 SM 215 H1000- 3000
30 SM 225 eldm H1000- 2930

300 NM 230 hybrid retumbo- 2970
300 NM 215 h1000- 3050

30 Nos (24" barrel) 220 LRHT h1000- 3000
30 Nos 245 berger H1000- 2850
30 nos 225 eldm h1000- 2950

Unless you're chasing ultimate velocity the 30 Nos is my favorite without a doubt.
ADG case capacity is around 100-101 grains while the 300 NM lapua is 103, the prc is 95 grains with ADG, and the 30 SM got to a whopping 96..
The 300NM case stretches a stupid amount and needed trimmed every other firing, I'd do the 300 NMI 40 degree shoulder version if you're set on that case.
And if you don't want to handload the 300 PRC makes the most sense, although it's really not any faster than a 300 WM.

Thanks for that data. If I do the Norma it will definitely be an improved version but I'm looking at a 35° shoulder instead of a 40. I'm concerned about feeding that fat case with a 40° shoulder. I am also going to keep some taper in the case but not much.

I considered the PRC but like you said it doesn't offer much over a properly throated 300 WM or Nosler and I personally have no issue with belted cases. The 300 WM will by far be the cheapest to reload for and has a mind boggling amount of brass available. I can't really for the life of me understand why 30 Nosler brass costs so much more than 300WM brass but it's at least double the cost. And then the Norma is 50% again. The saving grace is this will be a low volume shooter so 100 pieces of brass will last me a long time.

 

[VLD Pilot]

Pretty fair numbers as an average. One of my 300 WM's outperforms another by close to 100 fps with identical bullets and powder. One allows more powder before pressure shows up. Different rifling, different barrel manufacturers. I think we all find this is the case in our rifles. Got a buddy that brought his 300PRC out when I brought my 300WM and my WM turned in velocities higher than his PRC using same bullets and higher end velocities from each cartridge. Only was 40-60fps but he wasn't real happy with that chronograph.

 

[matt_3479]

I ran the 215's in the win mag at 2850 and hit pressure around 2900-2915. My Norma was able to hit 3200 with the 215's before pressure and seemed to have a node closer to 3150-3160. Going to start working up loads with the 230's in a few weeks for the Norma.

I've owned and compared a 300 wm, 300prc, 30 SM (waste of time for 1 grain improvement), 30 NM, and now a 30 Nos.
All had 26" custom throated barrels except my 30 Nos which is 24".

Here's my data just before pressure signs showed up.
300 PRC 225 eldm H1000- 2890
300 Prc 215 N570- 3025

30 SM 215 H1000- 3000
30 SM 225 eldm H1000- 2930

300 NM 230 hybrid retumbo- 2970
300 NM 215 h1000- 3050

30 Nos (24" barrel) 220 LRHT h1000- 3000
30 Nos 245 berger H1000- 2850
30 nos 225 eldm h1000- 2950

Unless you're chasing ultimate velocity the 30 Nos is my favorite without a doubt.
ADG case capacity is around 100-101 grains while the 300 NM lapua is 103, the prc is 95 grains with ADG, and the 30 SM got to a whopping 96..
The 300NM case stretches a stupid amount and needed trimmed every other firing, I'd do the 300 NMI 40 degree shoulder version if you're set on that case.
And if you don't want to handload the 300 PRC makes the most sense, although it's really not any faster than a 300 WM.

What is the reason for the 30 nosler being your favourite there?

 

[Mike D Texas]

I think I have confirmed my decision to go with the 300 Norma Improved.

Would anyone have a few (3-5) 230 Hybrids they could spare so I can make some dummy cartridges to have my reamer made?

Please let me know.