300 Norma (or NMI) 230 Berger Hybrids real velocities

[Mike D Texas]

I'm wanting to build a 30 caliber magnum and I keep waffling back and forth over just sticking with a tried & true 300 Win Mag, throated long, 30 Nosler throated long or 300 Norma mag (or improved).

I ran some hypothetical numbers through Quickload, all using 230 Hybrids, N570 powder and a 26" barrel. For those of you that are familiar with QL I used the same weighting factor of .5 even though the Nosler and Norma are probably more overbore than the 300 Win Mag.

I was quite surprised to see how little difference there was in velocity.

• 300 Win Mag - 83.3 grains - expected velocity 2,940fps
• 30 Nosler - 88.4 grains - expected velocity 2987 fps (6.12% powder increase, 1.6% velocity increase)
• 300 Norma - 90.2 grains - expected velocity 2991fps (8.28% powder increase, 1.73% velocity increase)
• 300 Norma Mag Improved - 94.5 grains - expected velocity 3009 fps (13.45% powder increase, 2.35% velocity increase)

Keep in mind the 300 WM & the 300 Norma have a lower listed max pressure than the Nosler so I'm sure that contributes to their lower velocities.

I would like to hear from folks that have a 300 Norma or 300 NMI as to what real velocities your are seeing when using the 230 Hybrids.

I'm trying to decide if the modest velocity gain (calculated) is worth the extra cost of the Lapua receiver, brass and the recoil penalty over the old school 300 Win Mag.

If the Norma is more overbore and I change the weighting factor to .4, the spread jumps quite a bit. 300 NMI - 95.6 grains - expected velocity jumps to 3068fps (14.77% more powder, 4.35% velocity increase).

That's 128fps faster than the 300 Win Mag but at the expense of 12.3 more grains of powder.

Thoughts?

 

[snox801]

I was in that same boat a while back. Loved my .300 win mag but wanted something a bit more and ended up with the .30 Sherman. Fit my role I wanted great. My thought was if I had to go bigger for the norma I was juts gonna do a .300-338 lapua.
Ended up with the .30 Sherman. Spent the first 100 rounds Fireforming brass. At that point my barrel was broke in and I could start load work. Pushing the 224gr hammer at 3180fps.
But out of your mentioned I would probably go .300 win mag. Get the Peterson long brass and some rl26 and have some fun.

 

[snox801]

I also think the real velocity of the norma will be much higher than what you have.
Been a while since I've seen it posted but I believe both outpace the .30 Sherman and the improved does it considerably.

 

[BAKPAKR]

I just got a 30 Nosler but I keep thinking about getting a 300 Norma. Unknown Munitions lists the following velocities for their ammo with 230 gr Bergers:

300 Win 2840 IMR7977 3.60" (OTM)
30 Nosler 3025 IMR8133 3.50" (HT)
300 Norma 3100 IMR8133 3.60" (HT)

 

[VLD Pilot]

I think the 300 PRC and 300 WM are both close to the true upper end velocities of the cartridge in your tests. The 30 Nosler and 300NM look to be very conservative in your observations. No doubt the 300NM is the King of that Hill but with those numbers it fits closely with the other two. I could have easily just stayed with my 300WM but after seeing the 300PRC cartridge, i got a little excited with it's design so decided to build. Didn't want another Lapua BF action. Just wanted a non-belted case with a longer neck possibly able to improve it. Seems the 300PRC fits in that category. If it were all about performance, I'd have done what snox801 mentioned and went with a 30/338 LM improved. I'm happy with what my 300WM can do but I wanted it done easier with less pressures with the ability to use heavier bullets and keeping case capacity up. The Nosler was another great option but the PRCs case specs made my mind up

 

[snox801]

30-338 lapua improved will get you 3200fps with a 240 or around that.
After this thread I'm very happy I chose the .30 Sherman.
If I'm able to push a 215 close to 3200 FPS which some do. I only have a 26" barrel and titanium action so I run it on the softer side. First sign of pressure and back off which on ti is always bolt drag.

 

[Mike D Texas]

I think the 300 PRC and 300 WM are both close to the true upper end velocities of the cartridge in your tests. The 30 Nosler and 300NM look to be very conservative in your observations. No doubt the 300NM is the King of that Hill but with those numbers it fits closely with the other two. I could have easily just stayed with my 300WM but after seeing the 300PRC cartridge, i got a little excited with it's design so decided to build. Didn't want another Lapua BF action. Just wanted a non-belted case with a longer neck possibly able to improve it. Seems the 300PRC fits in that category. If it were all about performance, I'd have done what snox801 mentioned and went with a 30/338 LM improved. I'm happy with what my 300WM can do but I wanted it done easier with less pressures with the ability to use heavier bullets and keeping case capacity up. The Nosler was another great option but the PRCs case specs made my mind up

I ran the numbers in the PRC and they fall between the 300 WM and the 30 Nosler. My main concern with the PRC is the clicker issue. bTW I should mention that in my scenarios above I have both the 300 WM and 30 Nosler throated long to seat long (3.700/3.650 respectively) so that helps to not eat up powder capacity in those.

 

[Mike D Texas]

I want to stick with a cartridge that is mainstream and has factory ammo available for this one. I'm not getting any younger and I don't know how much longer I'll want to shoot these big boomers. I don't want to get stuck in a cartridge that's a reload era round only like the 30-338
Lapua or the 30 Sherman.

I figure QL is calculating in the low side for maybe the Nosler and surely the Norma but I tried to keep the parameters close to the same. That's why I wanted feedback from folks who have these cartridges.

 

[VLD Pilot]

I ran the numbers in the PRC and they fall between the 300 WM and the 30 Nosler. My main concern with the PRC is the clicker issue. bTW I should mention that in my scenarios above I have both the 300 WM and 30 Nosler throated long to seat long (3.700/3.650 respectively) so that helps to not eat up powder capacity in those.

Yep definitely helped those two out

 

[VLD Pilot]

I want to stick with a cartridge that is mainstream and has factory ammo available for this one. I'm not getting any younger and I don't know how much longer I'll want to shoot these big boomers. I don't want to get stuck in a cartridge that's a reload era round only like the 30-338
Lapua or the 30 Sherman.

I figure QL is calculating in the low side for maybe the Nosler and surely the Norma but I tried to keep the parameters close to the same. That's why I wanted feedback from folks who have these cartridges.

The beauty of the 30 SM is shooting 300 PRC in that chamber gets identical accuracy as the improved version. No downside to that scenario

 

[Earnhardt]

30-338 lapua improved will get you 3200fps with a 240 or around that.
After this thread I'm very happy I chose the .30 Sherman.
If I'm able to push a 215 close to 3200 FPS which some do. I only have a 26" barrel and titanium action so I run it on the softer side. First sign of pressure and back off which on ti is always bolt drag.

I don't doubt the velocity of your Sherman
But a 215 Berger at 3200 fps, out a 26" barrel?...

Actual pressures please....

 

[VLD Pilot]

I don't doubt the velocity of your Sherman
But a 215 Berger at 3200 fps, out a 26" barrel?...

Actual pressures please....

I'd say 3100+ is easy. 3200 is pushing it.

 

[Slick8]

I've been running a 30 nosler for a few years now. I'm embarrassed to say I don't know what the freebore is but I'm sure I can find out.

I've loaded 200-230 grain bullets with H1k and all have fell in the 2950-3000 mark. Both 215 and 230s are best at 2980 in my rifle. I ran the 230s to 3050 with a 100% fill and no pressure signs but best accuracy was at 2980. Btw-100% capacity is at 85.2 grains with the 230s and adg brass.

Here's a pic showing where it's seated at .020 off.

If I were to go bigger capacity then a nosler case I'd be looking at a 338. But I'm ate up with hunting elk.

 

[snox801]

I want to stick with a cartridge that is mainstream and has factory ammo available for this one. I'm not getting any younger and I don't know how much longer I'll want to shoot these big boomers. I don't want to get stuck in a cartridge that's a reload era round only like the 30-338
Lapua or the 30 Sherman.

I figure QL is calculating in the low side for maybe the Nosler and surely the Norma but I tried to keep the parameters close to the same. That's why I wanted feedback from folks who have these cartridges.

Mike not sure if you knew this but the .30 Sherman shoots factory load out of mine at least as good as a .300prc. Mine was .5" groups at 100.
So I think it may be more accurate that a long throated .300win mag of .30 nosler if in a pinch. Just a thought. If the goal is to one day shoot factory or if that's the criteria. I think you only real option out of those listed is the .300prc.
Keep in mind this is assuming a lot. First the 215 has less engraving pressure as most claim than hammers. And based on what I'm getting and knowing I could push it harder. Seems another 20-30fps wouldn't take much. I'm getting nothing in the primers or even the slightest brass flow.