215M Primers for 25-06

[arthurj]

Hey guys, I am loading for a new 25-06. I have read somewhere that people are using magnum primers with the 25-06 with good results. Since the 210M primers are pretty much impossible to find these days and I have CCI BR2, and 215M's on hand, which one would you go with? I plan to use H4831SC and the 100gr ballistic tip.
Thanks in advance,
Al

 

[lever-hed]

I have been using CCI BR2 with good results in my 25-06, using RE-22. Also have some H4831SC i want to work loads on. I wanted to get the Federals, but , as you said, impossible... good luck

 

[johnnyk]

Arthurj,
I use the Remington 9.5M primer in conjunction with RL22. Works great for me when shooting the 100gn NBT or TSX. That said, I also use CCI BR2's with other powders like IMR4064 for the 75gn HP. JohnnyK.

 

[eshell]

I'd suggest not using magnum primers unless proven necessary, and if you're shooting true long range, to check it for ES on your chronograph.

I had used 215Ms in my 6.5-300 Wby with 83 grains of H-870 with decent results, but had to set the 30" barrel back and went with Retumbo in my "new" 27" tube. I continued using the 215M and then found I had wild ES numbers. In theory, this cartridge and powder should definitely require magnum primers, and I always assumed they were mandatory, but I went to a 210 and my ES went way down. I had to add back a grain or two of powder to regain velocity, but it's working well now.

 

[arthurj]

Maybe I will stick with the CCIBR2's then. Thank you for the input.

 

[J E Custom]

I'd suggest not using magnum primers unless proven necessary, and if you're shooting true long range, to check it for ES on your chronograph.

I had used 215Ms in my 6.5-300 Wby with 83 grains of H-870 with decent results, but had to set the 30" barrel back and went with Retumbo in my "new" 27" tube. I continued using the 215M and then found I had wild ES numbers. In theory, this cartridge and powder should definitely require magnum primers, and I always assumed they were mandatory, but I went to a 210 and my ES went way down. I had to add back a grain or two of powder to regain velocity, but it's working well now.

This is very common with cartriges with case capacitys from 50 to 100grs.

The 215 are very hot and won't work in your 25-06 as well as standard rifle
primers.

For some reason cases that hold 80 to 90grs of powder seam to be the most
sensitive to primer changes.

With out exception all of my testing with this size cartrige shot 30 to 50ft/sec
faster with the Fed 215s but SD's and ES's sufferd (30 to 50 ft/sec spread)
but when I switched to Rem 9 1/2 M's (A cooler mag primer) velocity slowed
and SD's dropped to below 15 ft/sec.

The 25-06 will hold around 60grs so you will get better results with an even cooler
primer like the fed 210M,rem9-1/2 LR or the CCI BR2. I have had good luck with
all three of these primers in 06 size cases and velocity has been within 5 ft/sec
of each other.

My records show that the CCI BR2 worked best in the 25-06 But all rifles are different
and this could be true for your rifle.


I hope this helped
J E CUSTOM

 

[arthurj]

Thank you, that was good info, I will stick with the ccibr2.

 

[lever-hed]

..this is good description of primer differences..

Rifles / Reloading / Primers

 

[lever-hed]

...and , even more info on powder nomenclature/burn rates, .. now we're talking splittin the hairs that have already been split...

exterior ballistics


Burn Rate

there is also a hodgdon 2008 manual (in magazine form) that describes many different powders and their burn rates..

 

[jwp475]

This is very common with cartriges with case capacitys from 50 to 100grs.

The 215 are very hot and won't work in your 25-06 as well as standard rifle
primers.

For some reason cases that hold 80 to 90grs of powder seam to be the most
sensitive to primer changes.

With out exception all of my testing with this size cartrige shot 30 to 50ft/sec
faster with the Fed 215s but SD's and ES's sufferd (30 to 50 ft/sec spread)
but when I switched to Rem 9 1/2 M's (A cooler mag primer) velocity slowed
and SD's dropped to below 15 ft/sec.

The 25-06 will hold around 60grs so you will get better results with an even cooler
primer like the fed 210M,rem9-1/2 LR or the CCI BR2. I have had good luck with
all three of these primers in 06 size cases and velocity has been within 5 ft/sec
of each other.

My records show that the CCI BR2 worked best in the 25-06 But all rifles are different
and this could be true for your rifle.


I hope this helped
J E CUSTOM

J E Custom is spot on. This has been well documented that the more violenty flash of the big mag primers in a small case leads to inconsistent loads (Standard deviation and extreme spreads). Many 1K benrest competitors use 210M primers in the 300 Win for this very reason

 

[arthurj]

Ok, great, thank you for the feedback.

 

[HoytemanPA]

In my opinion more than one should be tried. I did have issues with a brick of purple gob GM215s I got about 5 years ago, but have been happy with them since.

I haven't found theory to be all that useful for minimal vertical at long range.

I use FedGM215's with H4831sc in a 25-06. I only put it on paper once at 1K, 6 shots printed under 4 inches of vertical, I figured I didn't need to do anymore.

But I use CCI-BR2's with H4831sc in 6.5x284.

And FedGM215's with H4350 in 300 WSM.

That said, when I load the next one, I may not end up with the same result.

I run them across a chrono, cuz it's cool. But I really don't trust a thing about it. Some days the numbers look good, some days they don't. However, paper is pretty consistant.

Having found the charge I want with primer A, I do load development again with primer B,

I agg. five or six three shot groups of each comparison load at 500yds. The smallest vertical average group size gets shot.

 

[arthurj]

Well, I think I will stick with the CCIBR2's. Today I shot some groups with the 100gr ballistic tip. The groups at 200 yards for 53.5, 54, and 54.5 grains of H4831SC were all around .5". I don't think I will change anything!

Thanks for the help,
Al

 

[HoytemanPA]

Don't blame you! Same load my friend shoots 54gr H4831SC/100Btip in a Rem700. Mine is 52.3gr H4831SC/115 Btip in a Savage. Only with GM215's.
Some very fine shooting!
HPA