SmoakAllen
Member
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2006
- Messages
- 13
I am about to sight in my muzzle loader for IL whitetail. The maximum load is 150gr of pyrodex. Will it be more accurate if I use less like 130gr or 140??
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Muzzleloader accuracy?
- Thread starter SmoakAllen
- Start date
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NYLES
Well-Known Member
I dropped the pellets a few years ago....If I were you Id go to loose 777....I have more than one reason for this but Im pushed for time at the moment.....biggest reason is consistancy! do you ever get that flyer after 2 perfect shots? and sit scratching your head about howed that happen.. If so trust me its the pellets! I shoot 120 loose but thats almost max and equal to 150 pellets which by they way are not 50 grains each in 777...they are reduced.
If you can drop 3 pellets with the right end up you can pour loose just as fast...and loose is cheaper....shot for shot.
I was going to Iowa myself but trip fell through load in my Encore would have been 120 gr 777 and a 290 barnes TMZ...best shooting bullets I ever shot and they are mean when they get there!
check out my post in BP under... when i cant use a rifle.. thats my results from last year...after 26 years of ML thats best combo Ive ever found ! Any question about your bullets loads just ask.....but I promise that one will not let you down!
If you can drop 3 pellets with the right end up you can pour loose just as fast...and loose is cheaper....shot for shot.
I was going to Iowa myself but trip fell through load in my Encore would have been 120 gr 777 and a 290 barnes TMZ...best shooting bullets I ever shot and they are mean when they get there!
check out my post in BP under... when i cant use a rifle.. thats my results from last year...after 26 years of ML thats best combo Ive ever found ! Any question about your bullets loads just ask.....but I promise that one will not let you down!
J E Custom
Well-Known Member
Smoakallen
I wish I could say yes or no but it's not that simple.
Being an accuracy nut I'm not willing to except 6" groups
at 100yrds so I have done quite a bit of testing and found
what works for me.
First . If you have a short barrel(24to 26") less is probably
better.
I know that some states will not allow sabot's or black powder
substitutes so it may be harder to work up a good load but not
impossible.
If you use lead alloy I recomend flat base spitzser solids 450grs+
(150grs of powder will open up the back of a hollow base Minne
and cause accuracy problems.)
Next if legal use triple 7 or shockey's in stead of black powder,
almost no fouling allowing for quick follow up shots.
My most accurate load for my 50 cal is 125grs 777 behind a barnes
250gr tipped MZ and a 300gr Expander MZ. these bullets retain
98% of there weight and fly very good up to 300yrds (have not
tested beyond that)
I did'nt realize how bad black powder fouled untill I started shooting
a 45/110 cartrige rifle .2to3 shots was it with black powder with out
cleaning . 3to 4 shots with pyrodex and 8to10 with 777.
Barrel fouling is the biggest accuracy problem for muzzle loaders and
the sabots & 777 all but eliminate it.
It is important to clean between each shot because this is the way
you will hunt with it (clean).
Start low 100grs and work up and you will see accuracy improve and
then fall off when this happens back down to the best group and
your home.
I hope this helps
J E CUSTOM
I wish I could say yes or no but it's not that simple.
Being an accuracy nut I'm not willing to except 6" groups
at 100yrds so I have done quite a bit of testing and found
what works for me.
First . If you have a short barrel(24to 26") less is probably
better.
I know that some states will not allow sabot's or black powder
substitutes so it may be harder to work up a good load but not
impossible.
If you use lead alloy I recomend flat base spitzser solids 450grs+
(150grs of powder will open up the back of a hollow base Minne
and cause accuracy problems.)
Next if legal use triple 7 or shockey's in stead of black powder,
almost no fouling allowing for quick follow up shots.
My most accurate load for my 50 cal is 125grs 777 behind a barnes
250gr tipped MZ and a 300gr Expander MZ. these bullets retain
98% of there weight and fly very good up to 300yrds (have not
tested beyond that)
I did'nt realize how bad black powder fouled untill I started shooting
a 45/110 cartrige rifle .2to3 shots was it with black powder with out
cleaning . 3to 4 shots with pyrodex and 8to10 with 777.
Barrel fouling is the biggest accuracy problem for muzzle loaders and
the sabots & 777 all but eliminate it.
It is important to clean between each shot because this is the way
you will hunt with it (clean).
Start low 100grs and work up and you will see accuracy improve and
then fall off when this happens back down to the best group and
your home.
I hope this helps
J E CUSTOM
James Jones
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2002
- Messages
- 2,854
I use loose 777 at 110gr loads under a 250gr Hornady Shockwave sabot , I have run the powder charge up to 160grs and the best accuracy was at 110grs with accuracy right at the 1" mark with an Encore. aqccuracy was at 1.5" mark with 130gr powder and a 300gr Shockwave.
I've tried all the new black powder subs and found 777 to be the most consistant and accurate. the 250gr Shockwave has great performance on deer and hogs up to 300lbs , the heavier slugs will likely offer deeper penitration.
bottom line is that the max load is rarely the most accurate even with muzzel loaders , so your best bet would be to start with about 100grs and work your way up
I've tried all the new black powder subs and found 777 to be the most consistant and accurate. the 250gr Shockwave has great performance on deer and hogs up to 300lbs , the heavier slugs will likely offer deeper penitration.
bottom line is that the max load is rarely the most accurate even with muzzel loaders , so your best bet would be to start with about 100grs and work your way up
Use Holy Black and Patched Round balls!!!!!!
Sorry I will not be nice on the BP users with Sabots and Smokeless. If you are in the true spirit of BP shoot the original black and patched round balls. I can keep multiple patched roundballs in 54 cal touching at 100 yds with 90 grs of 1F in my persusion TC Renegade. Follow up shots are no big deal with the correct lube and patch thickness since the fouling will not inhibit the reload and accruacy is great. Round balls are great on penetration and if you are worried then step it up to the 58 cal and drop them like a rock
Happy hunting
Mule
Sorry I will not be nice on the BP users with Sabots and Smokeless. If you are in the true spirit of BP shoot the original black and patched round balls. I can keep multiple patched roundballs in 54 cal touching at 100 yds with 90 grs of 1F in my persusion TC Renegade. Follow up shots are no big deal with the correct lube and patch thickness since the fouling will not inhibit the reload and accruacy is great. Round balls are great on penetration and if you are worried then step it up to the 58 cal and drop them like a rock
Happy hunting
Mule
redbone
Well-Known Member
What kind of rifle arw you useing ?
James Jones
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2002
- Messages
- 2,854
Mule , you use 1F powder in you muzzel loader? I have a 36 cal Kentucky rifle here that I haven't played with yet , was wanting to shoot in some informal matches with it. I was thinking about using 2F but if your having good results with the slower 1F maybe I'll go that rout. I tried using FFF in my encore with Pyrodex and had good results actualy better accuracy but the Pyrodex is more trouble than its worth.
I'm like most guys and use my muzzel loader as a tool to extend my hunting season and for the most part I'm not realy concerned with the nestalga of hunting with the old style BP guns especialy if its a hunt for a trophy animal. When I get he urge to go primitive I soot my stick bow.
I'm like most guys and use my muzzel loader as a tool to extend my hunting season and for the most part I'm not realy concerned with the nestalga of hunting with the old style BP guns especialy if its a hunt for a trophy animal. When I get he urge to go primitive I soot my stick bow.
J E Custom
Well-Known Member
Muzzleloader accuracy
Mule
I will be nice to you round ball shooters and tell my experiences
with round ball.
When I started shooting black powder in the 70's there were no sabot's
and I had a Renegade just like you.
I loved patched ball loads and found them ok as far as group size at
100yrds "BUT" the first time I went hunting I had a bad experience
and had to tract a deer for 9 hour's due to no blood trail.
Assuming this was a fluke I shot another a week later ,With nearly
the same results.
At this point I started trying to figure out what was happining ,the
54 cal round was passing strait through with the exit hole no larger
than the ball (IT seemed to almost seal the exit hole it'self.) So
there was little or no blood trail.
After 2 more kills with similar results I gave up on round ball and
went to MAXI BALLS weighing 430grs and the change was dramatic
to say the least.
After the change to bullets every animal fell within a few feet of the
hit .
Then along came the sabot .Now we have a bullet that expands and
makes a exit wound .
I have hunted with other people that used the round ball with similar
results so I do'not recomend round ball for hunting at all.they are fine
for paper and fun.
Sabots are not allowed in some states because they are a modern design
((After 1900)).
So shoot what you want but I would not recomend round ball to the
new shooter.By the way Tripple 7 is not smokeless just clean burning.
Was that nice ?
J E CUSTOM
Use Holy Black and Patched Round balls!!!!!!
Sorry I will not be nice on the BP users with Sabots and Smokeless. If you are in the true spirit of BP shoot the original black and patched round balls. I can keep multiple patched roundballs in 54 cal touching at 100 yds with 90 grs of 1F in my persusion TC Renegade. Follow up shots are no big deal with the correct lube and patch thickness since the fouling will not inhibit the reload and accruacy is great. Round balls are great on penetration and if you are worried then step it up to the 58 cal and drop them like a rock
Happy hunting
Mule
Mule
I will be nice to you round ball shooters and tell my experiences
with round ball.
When I started shooting black powder in the 70's there were no sabot's
and I had a Renegade just like you.
I loved patched ball loads and found them ok as far as group size at
100yrds "BUT" the first time I went hunting I had a bad experience
and had to tract a deer for 9 hour's due to no blood trail.
Assuming this was a fluke I shot another a week later ,With nearly
the same results.
At this point I started trying to figure out what was happining ,the
54 cal round was passing strait through with the exit hole no larger
than the ball (IT seemed to almost seal the exit hole it'self.) So
there was little or no blood trail.
After 2 more kills with similar results I gave up on round ball and
went to MAXI BALLS weighing 430grs and the change was dramatic
to say the least.
After the change to bullets every animal fell within a few feet of the
hit .
Then along came the sabot .Now we have a bullet that expands and
makes a exit wound .
I have hunted with other people that used the round ball with similar
results so I do'not recomend round ball for hunting at all.they are fine
for paper and fun.
Sabots are not allowed in some states because they are a modern design
((After 1900)).
So shoot what you want but I would not recomend round ball to the
new shooter.By the way Tripple 7 is not smokeless just clean burning.
Was that nice ?
J E CUSTOM
NYLES
Well-Known Member
JE
I started in the 70's too I got a Renagade for X-mas in 79 when I was Nine...**** Im getting old!
I started in the 70's too I got a Renagade for X-mas in 79 when I was Nine...**** Im getting old!
SmoakAllen
Member
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2006
- Messages
- 13
Okay, so I will begin and sight in with 100 then go to up from there.
Thanks for the help.
Thanks for the help.
Roll-Yur-Own
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2006
- Messages
- 795
Sell it and get a smokeless savage (Half-Kidding!)
OR
Try the american pioneer powder (fffg not ffg) it does not corrode like triple seven or pyrodex does and you dont have to clean every time. Also, try the hornady sst or xtp bullets. I like the SST's myself. I used the pyrodex with the barnes mz's in my knight and it shot great, but cleanup is a pain. Now I use the sst's with the american pioneer when I hunt places where smokeless is not legal.
Best of Luck!
OR
Try the american pioneer powder (fffg not ffg) it does not corrode like triple seven or pyrodex does and you dont have to clean every time. Also, try the hornady sst or xtp bullets. I like the SST's myself. I used the pyrodex with the barnes mz's in my knight and it shot great, but cleanup is a pain. Now I use the sst's with the american pioneer when I hunt places where smokeless is not legal.
Best of Luck!
JE Custom
Hence why I said use a 58 cal----- 110+ of 2F and it does the job.
If every anecdotal story about shots, hours of game tracking, non expanding projectiles, ect. were the basis of our choices then everyone should throw their stuff in the trash can because I can find a story of at least one "failure" for any combination possible within ML, LRH, or BH.
I understand the "traditionalist" get all sappy eyed and the in-liner's feel they are just "extending their season" but I still think these seasons were made for true "primitive" weapons.
I think I will go and glue some more feathers on my 300 gr "shaft" and get ready for bow season.-----
Mule
Hence why I said use a 58 cal----- 110+ of 2F and it does the job.
If every anecdotal story about shots, hours of game tracking, non expanding projectiles, ect. were the basis of our choices then everyone should throw their stuff in the trash can because I can find a story of at least one "failure" for any combination possible within ML, LRH, or BH.
I understand the "traditionalist" get all sappy eyed and the in-liner's feel they are just "extending their season" but I still think these seasons were made for true "primitive" weapons.
I think I will go and glue some more feathers on my 300 gr "shaft" and get ready for bow season.-----
Mule
JE Custom
SNIP
I understand the "traditionalist" get all sappy eyed and the in-liner's feel they are just "extending their season" but I still think these seasons were made for true "primitive" weapons.
SNIP
What does Primitive mean? You use percussion, you can't consider that "Primitive" Do You?? Clearly caps are fairly modern, don't you think?
After-all, if IN-LINES are too modern then percussion caps are too modern too!
edge.
Perhaps I should explain my last post lest it be considered phishing.
I often see folks complain about In-Line ML's, but most don't realise how old these things are. IMO, once they allow BP subs, such as Tripple Seven, Pyrodex, and all the rest, patented in the last 1/4 century they give up not allowing smokeless and sabots and all the rest.
edge.
This was from a Sports Afield article from January 2002
COPYRIGHT 2002 Hearst Magazines, a Division of the Hearst Corporation
The classification of "modern in-line" muzzleloaders as "primitive weapons is an ongoing controversy. This is causing arguments among muzzleloader shooters and driving some state wildlife agencies to prohibit in-line muzzleloaders from primitive-weapons hunting because they seem "too modern." In-line muzzleloaders, however, predate the percussion cap. Several existing examples, dating from the mid-1700s, are virtually identical to modern in-lines except they feature flintlock ignition.
As early as the 1500s, wheel locks and flintlocks were encased inside compartments built in to some guns to protect the priming powder. By the mid-1700s, this had evolved into prototypical in-line lock systems using cylindrical bolts, coil springs, and a variety of cocking levers and triggers, operationally identical to modern in-line muzzleloaders. A few percussion in-lines were built in the early 1800s, but eventually the simple and inexpensive side-hammer percussion lock snuffed out the costly, antiquarian in-line muzzleloaders that now seem so far ahead of their time.
Ironically, weather-protected locks and positive straight-line ignition, major advantages of modern in-line muzzleloaders, are key issues in the current "too modern" controvert.
COPYRIGHT 2002 Hearst Magazines, a Division of the Hearst Corporation
I often see folks complain about In-Line ML's, but most don't realise how old these things are. IMO, once they allow BP subs, such as Tripple Seven, Pyrodex, and all the rest, patented in the last 1/4 century they give up not allowing smokeless and sabots and all the rest.
edge.
This was from a Sports Afield article from January 2002
COPYRIGHT 2002 Hearst Magazines, a Division of the Hearst Corporation
The classification of "modern in-line" muzzleloaders as "primitive weapons is an ongoing controversy. This is causing arguments among muzzleloader shooters and driving some state wildlife agencies to prohibit in-line muzzleloaders from primitive-weapons hunting because they seem "too modern." In-line muzzleloaders, however, predate the percussion cap. Several existing examples, dating from the mid-1700s, are virtually identical to modern in-lines except they feature flintlock ignition.
As early as the 1500s, wheel locks and flintlocks were encased inside compartments built in to some guns to protect the priming powder. By the mid-1700s, this had evolved into prototypical in-line lock systems using cylindrical bolts, coil springs, and a variety of cocking levers and triggers, operationally identical to modern in-line muzzleloaders. A few percussion in-lines were built in the early 1800s, but eventually the simple and inexpensive side-hammer percussion lock snuffed out the costly, antiquarian in-line muzzleloaders that now seem so far ahead of their time.
Ironically, weather-protected locks and positive straight-line ignition, major advantages of modern in-line muzzleloaders, are key issues in the current "too modern" controvert.
COPYRIGHT 2002 Hearst Magazines, a Division of the Hearst Corporation
