Ideal Cartridge for Elk?

[bigngreen]

I saw 4 of the 30 cal eldx dug out of elk and those looked excellent, the 6.5's not so much, bonded bullets have their issues also, just depends on which end a guy wants to manage things.

 

[Deleted member 107796]

Once you decide how much energy you think you need to kill an elk - opinions vary, but lets say 1000-1500 ftlbs...you can see what distance you need to keep your shots within.

I am so tired of people thinking they need large caliber and magnum rounds to cleanly kill these animals. Most people would be way better off spending time and money at the range shooting their 243 or 6.5 cm or 25-06 and improving their marksmanship than spending it on a "300 magnum elk killer".

I think anyone with experience with standard and magnum calibers would completely agree with your sentiment about any NEED for a magnum or larger caliber, to do this job. I just wanted to clarify that for myself, the extra 200-300fps for a 270, 7mm or 30 cal magnum, goes into the energy levels you mention as a factor to consider, if someone is asking for, broadly, an ideal elk cartridge. In CO, the laws states a need for at least 1000 ftlb at 100 yards. For long range hunting, a magnum velocity places you well into those margins of energy.

 

[Canhunter35]

I Pack a 300 WBee also BUT why would you use a ELDX bullet ? There is a LOT of Info about those BULLETs coming apart and NOT penetrating ! Why Not use a BONDED bullet like a Nosler or Swift to Ensure that not happening ? Just wondering ? WP

I've shot a cow elk at 50 yards in the chest, worked great lol.
I've also shot a bull moose in the shoulder at 200 yds and it also worked great. It broke that moose's heavy shoulder bone no problem. So far I've shot two elk and two moose and mule deer and have no reason why I would not use it

 

[FIGJAM]

I think anyone with experience with standard and magnum calibers would completely agree with your sentiment about any NEED for a magnum or larger caliber, to do this job. I just wanted to clarify that for myself, the extra 200-300fps for a 270, 7mm or 30 cal magnum, goes into the energy levels you mention as a factor to consider, if someone is asking for, broadly, an ideal elk cartridge. In CO, the laws states a need for at least 1000 ftlb at 100 yards. For long range hunting, a magnum velocity places you well into those margins of energy.

You are right, that is exactly what a magnum does as long as you use high bc bullets - it extends your range. What happens is, someone from back east wants to come out west for an elk hunt and reads something like this and buys a 338 rum for the hunt and can't shoot it for crap. They would be better off shooting their whitetail gun. I think most people would agree - when you take a shot over 500 yards its because you want to, not because you had to. It isn't hard to sneak within 500 yards of game, even out west. At 500 and 600 yards there are a lot of non magnum rounds that will retain 1000 lbs of energy.

 

[Bravo 4]

What happens is, someone from back east wants to come out west for an elk hunt and reads something like this and buys a 338 rum for the hunt and can't shoot it for crap.

You definitely got something right in this...the "can't shoot for crap"! That goes for ANY cartridge, even their so called deer rifles. You appear to want to blame their large magnum for their inability to shoot, just an excuse to me. After seeing some of the guys I know actually pull (yank) the trigger on their rifle, even .270 win, I wouldn't want them to shoot at ANYTHING past 50 yards. My point is that I bet most shoot like crap no matter what they shoot, it's more of a fundamentals problem.

 

[FIGJAM]

You definitely got something right in this...the "can't shoot for crap"! That goes for ANY cartridge, even their so called deer rifles. You appear to want to blame their large magnum for their inability to shoot, just an excuse to me. After seeing some of the guys I know actually pull (yank) the trigger on their rifle, even .270 win, I wouldn't want them to shoot at ANYTHING past 50 yards. My point is that I bet most shoot like crap no matter what they shoot, it's more of a fundamentals problem.

I agree 100% - see post #5 from me in this thread. I stand by what I said there. I have been out way to many times with guys who are yanking or flinching. Some of it is technique, some of it is just being afraid and anticipating the recoil or the even the loud crack from a rifle, especially if there is a brake on it.

Also, I hate hunting with brakes and try and avoid hunting with people who hunt with brakes. I know people will say just buy a cannon and put a brake on it. I am not saying that doing that is bad, I just don't want any part of it. I already have a little tinnitus and I always have some sort of hearing protection on me. In the heat of the moment very rarely do I remember to use it. Also, on longer shots I like to be able to communicate with a buddy if they see something I don't before I pull the trigger, like "hold up, there is a cow behind that bull, let her clear first etc" If a hunting buddy wants me to try to spot his shot through the spotter or binos, or hold the horses, they know that will only happen if they aren't using a brake. Otherwise I am plugging my ears and we'll catch up with the horses back at the trailer..lol.

 

[Golovkin]

Sure there are a few people that flinch from a .243, but I'll bet 1/2 of hunters shooting an unbraked 9lb .338RUM will develop a flinch. It may be hard to believe if you've never shot one, but that level of recoil is painful and on a much higher level than even 300RUM or Wbyetc.

 

[Deleted member 107796]

You are right, that is exactly what a magnum does as long as you use high bc bullets - it extends your range. What happens is, someone from back east wants to come out west for an elk hunt and reads something like this and buys a 338 rum for the hunt and can't shoot it for crap. They would be better off shooting their whitetail gun. I think most people would agree - when you take a shot over 500 yards its because you want to, not because you had to. It isn't hard to sneak within 500 yards of game, even out west. At 500 and 600 yards there are a lot of non magnum rounds that will retain 1000 lbs of energy.

I don't think we need to qualify our posts with weighing our experience vs a non-experienced long distance hunter reading the content and what may happen after that. As far as recoil, and I see that you correctly pay very close attention to how a shooter can handle recoil, there's nothing like a real effective recoil pad to show any shooter that pretty much any caliber can be shot well. I think the common view about handling only up to a certain level of recoil is only due to having a rifle that has a poor pad, a la Tikka T3 Lite. Even a very light, high caliber or magnum rifle can be shot well with a good pad or brake.
I notice you have a 270wsm. Just curious what model?

 

[FIGJAM]

I don't think we need to qualify our posts with weighing our experience vs a non-experienced long distance hunter reading the content and what may happen after that. As far as recoil, and I see that you correctly pay very close attention to how a shooter can handle recoil, there's nothing like a real effective recoil pad to show any shooter that pretty much any caliber can be shot well. I think the common view about handling only up to a certain level of recoil is only due to having a rifle that has a poor pad, a la Tikka T3 Lite. Even a very light, high caliber or magnum rifle can be shot well with a good pad or brake.
I notice you have a 270wsm. Just curious what model?

Sorry man, I should have said I personally experienced on more than one occasion, somebody from back east buying a 338 something they couldn't shoot and personally witnessing the consequences of that. Did that make you feel better? We all know people come on this website to research, so I did make it into a hypothetical and assume what may happen after that, but the reality is, I have seen this story play out more than once.

My 270 wsm is a browning x-bolt medallion.

 

[FIGJAM]

I don't think we need to qualify our posts with weighing our experience vs a non-experienced long distance hunter reading the content and what may happen after that. As far as recoil, and I see that you correctly pay very close attention to how a shooter can handle recoil, there's nothing like a real effective recoil pad to show any shooter that pretty much any caliber can be shot well. I think the common view about handling only up to a certain level of recoil is only due to having a rifle that has a poor pad, a la Tikka T3 Lite. Even a very light, high caliber or magnum rifle can be shot well with a good pad or brake.
I notice you have a 270wsm. Just curious what model?

A good pad definitely helps, but it doesn't take it away. People who don't use hearing protection can also flinch anticipating the noise from a braked rifle. I have seen it - it isn't always about recoil.

 

[Deleted member 107796]

My 270 wsm is a browning x-bolt medallion.

Very nice. That 270WSM is easily a candidate for ideal elk firestick.

 

[Bravo 4]

Sure there are a few people that flinch from a .243, but I'll bet 1/2 of hunters shooting an unbraked 9lb .338RUM will develop a flinch. It may be hard to believe if you've never shot one, but that level of recoil is painful and on a much higher level than even 300RUM or Wbyetc.

I have a carry weight .338 RUM that I shot unbraked for a while, it's a switch barrel to .300 RUM too (no brake). I also have an 8.5 pound .510 cal rifle (750 grain bullets at 1750fps) that doesn't have a brake. If most were taught to properly shoot a properly set up rifle, then most of that can be overcome...mentally. Take that average guy with a .243 and blindly not load the chamber, then watch how often a flinch or just plain bad form/follow through happens.
There are always going to be exceptions, folks really small in stature or injuries are going to have issues. Some people just have a weak constitution about them, like the reporter that shot an AR and said it gave him PTSD. I'm not going to tell you that you "need" a cannon to kill elk, but I will recommend shooting the largest cartridge/caliber you can shoot reliably. As the game gets bigger, the equipment should match (in my opinion). Since I travel a long ways for that one week or two yearly hunt (if lucky), spend a chunk of money on tags that I may see one animal- I would rather have & not need, worst case, and all that jazz. If I were to live in an area that I could hunt elk on a regular basis, my opinion may swing the other way.

 

[TG-5150]

I Pack a 300 WBee also BUT why would you use a ELDX bullet ? There is a LOT of Info about those BULLETs coming apart and NOT penetrating ! Why Not use a BONDED bullet like a Nosler or Swift to Ensure that not happening ? Just wondering ? WP

This being a long range forum, most folks are shooting Low drag bullets. Partitions, Swift's, Grand Slams, etc. are awesome for their intended ranges. Which are best utilized under 500 yards. There are better choices for bullets when the distance gets stretched out.

 

[FIGJAM]

I'm not going to tell you that you "need" a cannon to kill elk, but I will recommend shooting the largest cartridge/caliber you can shoot reliably. .

I think this is the key.

That is a good point that a lot of people even flinch with lighter rounds. I mess with my son at the range all the time loading or unloading rounds in his 6.5cm so that he can feel the slightest flinch or brace for recoil when he pulls the trigger and there is no round in the chamber.