SOLD/EXPIRED WTB Savage large shank action

[yotekilla250]

Wow, I'm glad I started this thread. I didn't realize all this and could have gotten myself into a little but of trouble with the wrong action.

 

[geargrinder]

Chances are, you would have been fine and nothing would happen.

You just have to know the risks when you use something in a manner that it wasn't designed for.

 

[Shoalwater]

geargrinder is correct, not only is the heat treating different, but it is also a closed top action with the larger .550 bolt lugs.

 

[yotekilla250]

I'd still be interested in any small or large shank actions for other builds if anyone has one laying around.

 

[Matt27]

Who at Savage said they were heat treated? And what are they treated to compared to normal action.

I don't care what Fred at SSS or savage shooters has to say. There is much mis info spread over there and Fred is a Crook.

The lugs on the lapua are the same size as the lugs on my 7 WSM bolt. The 300WSM has roughly the same bolt thrust per Wikipedia.

 

[Shoalwater]

I don't think anyone is saying it couldn't be done, but there is a reason that Savage no longer makes WSM's on a small shank action. There is a reason why they chose to make the Lapua action a closed top, there's a reason most custom action makers go with a .750 diameter bolt for there Lapua size actions. It is just a safety margin that their engineers feel is safe for the bolt thrust and pressures of the large magnums. Just because you can build it, doesn't mean it is the right or safest way to do. While I agree that Fred doesn't run his business in the best manner, the guy does great work and does know what he is talking about.

 

[Matt27]

My wsm bolt size and the 112 lapua bolt are the same size.
I am not saying its ok to do one way or the other. People regurgatate info they don't know.

 

[Shoalwater]

I hear you on what gets passed along as fact, when it's nothing more than internet gossip. I can't confirm on the different heat treating for the Lapua actions as I have not heard it directly from Savage. That being said you can look at the action and see that it is a closed top action which should allow the top lug abutment to be longer and therefore stronger and more resistant to setback from the bolt thrust of a Lapua size magnum. Also being a closed top action it should be substantially stiffer as well. It would make sense that your WSM bolt head uses the .550 lugs as the WSM's do create similar bolt thrust to a Lapua. There are quite a few very well respected gunsmiths and action makers in the industry that believe both the Remington and Savage factory built Lapua's are marginal at best. I tend to side on the side of overbuilt when it comes to an explosion going of a few inches from my brain. That being said, I am helping a buddy do a 6.5 SAUM on a small shank Savage Axis. I tried to talk him out of it, but he's determined.

 

[Matt27]

I agree with you. If I was to build the lapua on a savage I would use the Target action for reasons you described. I don't see the reason for the different heat treatment for the lapua because of the fact there is no difference in bolt size between it and the wsm bolt I have.
If the heat treatment were true, then the WSM action would be heat treated the same but the wsm action is an open top action.
As I have read about all the " marginal feelings" I doubt Remington or Savage would be mass producing them if they were marginal. To much lawyer liability.
Again, i am not saying one way or the other that you can do it or not do it, just providing facts versus internet heresay that has been put out there.

 

[devildogandboy]

yep, heard and read the same over the years as Shoalwater and geargrinder, i wouldn't take the risk without looking further into it. if you want to verify it one way or the other call Savage "Custom Shop" and talk to one of the smiths available. you will find out definitely if it's safe or not.

good luck.

Bruce

 

[geargrinder]

The Lapua make more thrust against the abutments that the RUM and WSM.

Yes, they all run at the same pressure, but the Lapua has more surface area and transfers that much more energy through the lugs and onto the abutments.

That's why the Lapua gets the different heat treat and why a WSM, RUM, or Target action aren't appropriate for a big magnum rim diameter round.

 

[Matt27]

The Lapua make more thrust against the abutments that the RUM and WSM.

Yes, they all run at the same pressure, but the Lapua has more surface area and transfers that much more energy through the lugs and onto the abutments.

That's why the Lapua gets the different heat treat and why a WSM, RUM, or Target action aren't appropriate for a big magnum rim diameter round.

How much more bolt thrust does the lapua have versus the others?

 

[geargrinder]

How much more bolt thrust does the lapua have versus the others?

The Lapua case head is about 18% larger over the standard magnum case head.

 

[Matt27]

Lapua is .587 and the 300wsm is .535 per saami specs.
That is only 8% larger. Using case head for bolt thrust is the easiest way but internal measurement is more precise.

By the Link in Wikepedia, the lapua only has 5% more thrust than the 300WSM. Well within the safety margin that is built into the 300wsm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolt_thrust

If an action needed to be heat treated differently, the bolt head would also because the lugs take the force before the action does.