I like the .002 under bullet diameter vs the .001 under just as piece of mind when running mag fed bolt guns. Just me.
Would S type Bushing help in Lowering ES
- Thread starter merbeau
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Mikecr
Well-Known Member
Whether FL sizing necks or partial length sizing of necks (with bushings) the utility of neck expansion does not change.
You can still get the advantages of neck expansion(pre-seating) with bushing sizing.
I recommend a separate expander mandrel system though (Sinclair or PMA).
You can still get the advantages of neck expansion(pre-seating) with bushing sizing.
I recommend a separate expander mandrel system though (Sinclair or PMA).
First of all, there appears to be a consensus that tension is an avenue that I should explore. I want to thank all that replied. Been a very informative and professional discussion. My rifle is used for competition, mainly local not national events. It would be impractical to carry. The point being that I normally do not load rounds into the magazine. I can see where 0.001 tension could be a potential problem for magnums with rounds in the magazine. I will start at 0.002 and go from that point. I will try to post my results after testing.
Good luck brother and keep us posted.
Varmint Hunter
Well-Known Member
Why is it important to have the etched numbers on a Redding bushing facing down?
My guess would be that most reloaders would have them facing up so that they could be read without dumping them out of the die.
My guess would be that most reloaders would have them facing up so that they could be read without dumping them out of the die.
ShtrRdy
Well-Known Member
I do it numbers down also. My reason for doing so is to have the flat side of the bushing pressing against the decap rod lock nut. Otherwise the number/letter on the bushing would cause the bushing to not sit square with the neck.
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Varmint Hunter
Well-Known Member
Now that's something that I never heard before. I wonder if anyone has ever tried sizing with the bushing in each direction to see if there is a detectable difference. Hmmm
Redding recommends this. It's "possible" that the engraving process may create an uneven surface. Facing down avoids the possibility.
lancetkenyon
Well-Known Member
Just depends on what neck tension you want to run. I like .002" for my rifles, as all of them are hunting rifles that feed from a magazine. So I want a bit of a firmer grip on the bullet. If I single fed each round, .001" might work just fine.
Results
First a few pictures of my rig which was requested by several commenters. A base Rem 700 LA with a Douglas premium target barrel in heavy varmint configuration, 27.5 inches in length with a target crown and 1:8 twist. The chamber neck was cut 0.004 larger than the Lapua brass. The gunsmith used inserts to measure the receiver's raceway and fit a one-piece PTG stainless custom bolt with a stainless competition firing pin, shroud, and spring. The bolt also has mini Sako extractor for the larger rim diameter found for Norma and Lapua brass. The bolt was blueprinted to the barrel. The unit is fit to a Bobby Hart LRT stock with an aluminum block and aluminum pillars. A custom stainless Oberndorf trigger guard and stainless receiver bolts set at 35 inch pounds back and 30 inch pounds front. The Timney trigger is set to 1.5 pounds. There is a Nightforce steel 20 moa base topped with an older Bausch and Lomb 6x-24 steel target scope. Took me three years to build little by little.
Sinclair recommended using Sinclair Gen II expander die and the 0.263 carbide mandrel. The representative claimed the 0.263 was designed to provide 0.0015 tension after spring back. As a start, 30 pieces of Lapua brass that were initially fire formed with cast bullets and then fired with regular recipe were selected for analysis. Analyses at one ten thousand are sensitive. I typically roll my thumb over the thumbroll and then read the measurement. Neck diameter after running though expander had a mean of 0.2930 inches which I checked with an older non digital caliper and confirmed the digital 0.2030 reading. The std dev was negligible and the CV was 0.15 percent.
The brass was tested after 4 hours with no spring back, same for 6 hours; at 18 hours 0.001 inches and the same after 24 hours. Brass was rerun through the Sinclair neck expander, primed, charged with powder and seated with a bullet. Neck diameter was 0.2940 with a resulting neck tension of 0.001 inches. Lapua brass is annealed at the factory. The data would suggest 'spring back' is time related and reloading should be done uninterrupted. If 0.002 tension would be necessary, then leave the brass out for at least 18-24 hours.
I use a magneto type of chronograph which gives good results but does impact the POI and is a drawback. Rifle mounted on a Bald Eagle benchrest base with Protector leaf sand bag for the back. I used 10 rounds for velocity testing. The ES did drop to 9 with the average velocity staying the same. I then cleaned the barrel, fired 1 round for fouling and fired 3 for group at 0.011 and 0.002 tension. Picture is included. The rifle liked the 0.002 the best; however, the group opened up a little. Should I test at +/- 0.5 grains around this load to see if the group tightens up?
Again thanks to everyone that replied.
First a few pictures of my rig which was requested by several commenters. A base Rem 700 LA with a Douglas premium target barrel in heavy varmint configuration, 27.5 inches in length with a target crown and 1:8 twist. The chamber neck was cut 0.004 larger than the Lapua brass. The gunsmith used inserts to measure the receiver's raceway and fit a one-piece PTG stainless custom bolt with a stainless competition firing pin, shroud, and spring. The bolt also has mini Sako extractor for the larger rim diameter found for Norma and Lapua brass. The bolt was blueprinted to the barrel. The unit is fit to a Bobby Hart LRT stock with an aluminum block and aluminum pillars. A custom stainless Oberndorf trigger guard and stainless receiver bolts set at 35 inch pounds back and 30 inch pounds front. The Timney trigger is set to 1.5 pounds. There is a Nightforce steel 20 moa base topped with an older Bausch and Lomb 6x-24 steel target scope. Took me three years to build little by little.
Sinclair recommended using Sinclair Gen II expander die and the 0.263 carbide mandrel. The representative claimed the 0.263 was designed to provide 0.0015 tension after spring back. As a start, 30 pieces of Lapua brass that were initially fire formed with cast bullets and then fired with regular recipe were selected for analysis. Analyses at one ten thousand are sensitive. I typically roll my thumb over the thumbroll and then read the measurement. Neck diameter after running though expander had a mean of 0.2930 inches which I checked with an older non digital caliper and confirmed the digital 0.2030 reading. The std dev was negligible and the CV was 0.15 percent.
The brass was tested after 4 hours with no spring back, same for 6 hours; at 18 hours 0.001 inches and the same after 24 hours. Brass was rerun through the Sinclair neck expander, primed, charged with powder and seated with a bullet. Neck diameter was 0.2940 with a resulting neck tension of 0.001 inches. Lapua brass is annealed at the factory. The data would suggest 'spring back' is time related and reloading should be done uninterrupted. If 0.002 tension would be necessary, then leave the brass out for at least 18-24 hours.
I use a magneto type of chronograph which gives good results but does impact the POI and is a drawback. Rifle mounted on a Bald Eagle benchrest base with Protector leaf sand bag for the back. I used 10 rounds for velocity testing. The ES did drop to 9 with the average velocity staying the same. I then cleaned the barrel, fired 1 round for fouling and fired 3 for group at 0.011 and 0.002 tension. Picture is included. The rifle liked the 0.002 the best; however, the group opened up a little. Should I test at +/- 0.5 grains around this load to see if the group tightens up?
Again thanks to everyone that replied.
bob4
Well-Known Member
For a much shorter answer, minus the "hogwash" I have swapped from Forster to Redding and I am liking what I see thus far.
Well this is the exact reason I stopped using Facebook. People sitting behind a computer screen blasting insults and up until your comment was a good session. Forster was the seating die not the neck die for your information. Secondly, I ended up using the Sinclair carbide expander die which you completely missed. You contributed nothing to this conversation. You should be banned from the site. I will not stoop to hurling insults which became quite common on Facebook. Shame to see it on this forum in which generally people try to help.
bob4
Well-Known Member
Sorry you took it the wrong way.
