why powder ,bullets and brass are hard to find

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by dgarrett, Dec 19, 2013.

  1. dgarrett

    dgarrett Well-Known Member

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    Who finds this disgusting? Average 250,000 rounds fired for every conformed kill in Iraq and Afganastan. I always thought it was Obama just making big orders for ammo to hurt the pro-gun public...Maybe they should of just given 99% of the troops firecrackers. With that kind of marksmanship all they were doing is making noise...You Google it and find stories about it.... dgarrett
     
  2. sbhooper

    sbhooper Banned

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    It was two or three times that in Viet Nam. You would realize why it is like that if you had ever been to a war zone. A lot of fire in a combat zone is suppression fire. The only ones that really make it count is the snipers. A war cannot be fought one round at a time. That is just the way it is. Machineguns are not efficient ammo users.
     

  3. joeycoates

    joeycoates Well-Known Member

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    sbhooper is exactly right, when you are trying to engage an opponent you will quite often put down covering/suppressing fire down in order to get their heads down for movement purposes.

    And let me tell you, if your buddy is down next to a wall and you have to go and get him, all of the other guys will lay down a WALL of rounds so that you can do so. Or when you get hit with an IED initiated ambush followed by small arms fire then every person available will be laying down suppression fire to get them to stop shooting at YOU. At that point the inability of persons stateside to get reloading supplies is not very important...

    I am not going to get into it much more as I wanted to write all sorts of stuff that could get into OPSEC issues, but until you have had to react to a completely disorienting position like that then do not condemn to use of a lot of rounds in order to stay alive or keep your buddies alive. Maybe more rounds are used then necessary, but it really depends on what side of "necessary" you are sitting on.
     
  4. phorwath

    phorwath Well-Known Member

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    Re: why powder, bullets and brass are hard to find

    I support the troops for doing anything that gives them the advantage and improves their odds of surviving. Whether it's practicing and preparation, or a firefight.
     
  5. Kevin Thomas

    Kevin Thomas Well-Known Member

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    Dgarrett,

    If it makes you feel any better, snipers average something around 1.3-1.7 rounds per kill, depending on where you get your figures from. Our SDMs are probably up there fairly high as well.

    Some years back, some congressional weenie tried to get an investigation going concerning war crimes against (comitted by) our troops. The number of Al Qaeda and insurgent fighters that were turning up with single bullet wounds through the head was apparently disconcerting to some leftist hand-wringers over here, and they alleged that these constituted proof that our troops were executing prisoners. A little study confirmed that improved marksmanship training, combined with the advent of optics on most soldiers rifles (just try to find a recent pic of troops armed with iron-sighted rifles) meant that when they had an exposed target, they popped it. Just happened that that's what was visible to them, so that's what they shot.

    As I saw it, they all got their 72 virgins, so everyone's happy . . . what's the problem?
     
  6. little black 243

    little black 243 Well-Known Member

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    Agreed with the above!

    Suppressing fire is a wonderful thing when you are pinned down or have a partner that needs to move. To hell with the round count at that time its about making it home. Yes the recent ammo prices and lack of ammo and reloading components sucks but I was sure glad I carried an extra mag or two overseas.
     
  7. cowboy

    cowboy Well-Known Member

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    Who finds that disgusting. - NOT ME. If it took 2,000,000 rounds per kill and I could not find ANY COMPONENTS - it would well be worth it.

    Send our troops firecrackers - you don't want me to comment on something like this.

    If I were you I'd suggest you delete your post because if you respond in some similar stupid manner - I will also, and Len is going to throw my butt atta here for what I'd say.
     
  8. dgarrett

    dgarrett Well-Known Member

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    When I first read the report of 250,000 rounds per kill I just didn't understand that a huge percent of the shots were suppression fire.. The guys that were in the wars explained it. Now I know why that number is so high. I just couldn't figure out how our troops could shot at the enemy so many times and have such a low kill rate...I am not deleting my post...dgarrett
     
  9. Garyshome

    Garyshome Well-Known Member

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    Good answer!:D
     
  10. sbhooper

    sbhooper Banned

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    I can see it now. " NO! We will not send in the gunships because we are within 30 rounds of being over our monthly round count!" "You guys have bayonets, don't you?"
     
  11. ksubuck

    ksubuck Well-Known Member

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    I think the shortage of components is easily explained. Six months ago, there was hardly any factory ammunition available on store shelves. Mass hoarding due to the fall out from the unfortunate events in Connecticut led to this. Manufacturers are currently putting a large amount of the components into production of factory ammo. Store shelves are finally getting restocked to acceptable levels. Just wait a few more months and the reloading components will reappear. It is starting...
     
  12. DocB

    DocB Well-Known Member

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    Obviously you weren't around during the Carter years. That's exactly what happened.

    BTW bayonets have been removed from units and soldiers are no longer taught the 'spirit of the bayonet'. According to the 'New Army' the bayonet has no place on the modern battlefield. But I'm sure all those North Koreans, Chinese and Russian folks have 'em and are being taught how to use them.

    So no bullets and no bayonets.

    And no gunships... ROE prevents killing of the enemy.

    The 'demilitarization' of the US military continues in a quiet, covert, and surreptitious way.


    DocB
    CW3 USA (Ret)
    1970-1995
    Airborne, Ranger, LRRP

    Animo et Fide "Courage and Faith"
     
  13. justgoto

    justgoto Well-Known Member

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    Google "fire superiority".
     
  14. Greywolf18

    Greywolf18 Well-Known Member

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    Don't worry, the Marines still train with them and are still issued them. There is a whole part of the Marines Corps hand to hand fighting (Marine Corps Martial Arts Program - MCMAP) that is designated to fighting with a bayonet on a rifle and knife hand to hand fighting. So while the Army runs away the Marines will be fixing bayonets and pushing forward like always :D

    Sorry, just had to throw some Marines vs. Army comments in there as I saw you were retired Army. I'm under 3 years from hitting my 20 in the Marine Corps :D