What reloading manuals are most accurate to y'all?

Discussion in 'Equipment Discussions' started by goodgrouper, Sep 21, 2004.

  1. goodgrouper

    goodgrouper Well-Known Member

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    What reloading manuals are most accurate to y\'all?

    I am starting a custom reloading business for accuracy-minded hunters and was just wondering what the general feeling was of the reloading manuals of today and yesteryear. Also, how often have people found their accuracy load or max load to have matched what the manual says? I have thus far found Noslers #5 to be right on with .300 Win mags but way off with 7mm Rem mags. Sierra seems to have the max loads down but their velocities seem pretty slow. I am interested in information on ALL calibers.
    Also, has anyone seen this new Norma manual yet? It was supposed to be out this summer.
    Thanks everyone!

    [ 09-21-2004: Message edited by: goodgrouper ]
     
  2. LB

    LB Well-Known Member

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    Re: What reloading manuals are most accurate to y\'all?

    I think you have to look at everything you can, with a new gun. Published loads are just a starting point but they give you a rough idea of what to expect. Hodgdons is helpful with other mfg. powders. Also, can't do without Hornady's, Sierra and Speer.

    Old Speer catalogs contain a lot of unusually hot loads. When they say max; believe it. That was before the lawyers started editing the manuals. Never throw out an old book, it may be the last one to give data for some currently unpopular chamberings.

    Good hunting. LB
     

  3. kac1345

    kac1345 Well-Known Member

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    Re: What reloading manuals are most accurate to y\'all?

    I agree you should have a good assortmant of reloading manuals...always good to cross referance...Sierra seems to be low on their Max loads but always work slow up to the max. Max load will definatly vary from rifle to Rifle ...and usually alot from a cutom tube and a factory.
    Keith
     
  4. Mysticplayer

    Mysticplayer Writers Guild

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    Re: What reloading manuals are most accurate to y\'all?

    All manuals are 'correct' under the conditions and components tested. Which only gives us a ballpark place to start with our personal rifles.

    The variable that stays pretty constant is muzzle vel for a given weight of bullet, case, and barrel length. variations of 5% are certainly within the norm.

    When working up a load, keep an eye on vel. If a bullet combination produces vel way above the norm, something is wrong. There is no free lunch and unless you have an in with the super powders, you will not beat the SAAMI standards.

    If you are going to make ammo for others, I would assume that you have a wide background in reloading and have access to the necessary monitoring equipment. You open a huge liability issue if simply using data from a reloading manual then shipping to someone to use in their rifle.

    Are you going to work on the specific rifle or just make low runout ammo built to SAAMI specs?

    Making ammo for general consumption is really a hit and miss proposition (I am sure you know that already). Would be no better then factory - with all the risks to you.

    With liability insurance rates going through the roof (if coverage is even offered), I would be surprised if this type of business would be profitable.

    Anyways, good luck with your venture and be safe.

    Jerry
     
  5. JR

    JR Well-Known Member

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    Re: What reloading manuals are most accurate to y\'all?

    They are all accurate to the rifle and barrel they used for the test..But the most reliable data is from those companies which use SAAMI or CIP standard pressure ballistic test barrels...Those barrels are made to spec, and if they swap, the same spec barrel will be used in it's place...

    JR
     
  6. goodgrouper

    goodgrouper Well-Known Member

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    Re: What reloading manuals are most accurate to y\'all?

    JerryTeo and JR,
    Thanks for actually READING the post before you responded. My question was not "how do you reload", or "which manual should I follow", but which manuals have YOU found (in your own guns) to be closest to your OWN findings. In other words, I noticed that the Sierra manual has matched MY findings as far as top loads are concerned but the velocities I achieved with that specific load went faster in several different calibers I tested. I think sometimes other people get in a hurry to answer just one part of a question to prove their "extensive knowledge" and forget the other parts of the question or miss the jist of the questions entirely. Jerry, you really caught the jist of my post, and I appreciate it. You could tell (because you read) that I was not just the average reloader. Obviously I have been doing this for many years and I do use almost all the manuals at my disposal to get an average. I thought that went without saying. Obviously, If one is going to tackle the job of getting small groups out of factory guns for others, he must know a little about reloading. The answer to your question is best answered by telling you what I plan to do. I take anyone's gun for several weeks, and develop a load that the gun likes best. I will not stop until I find a load that shoots at least half MOA. I might have to try 10 different powders, 5 different bullets, 4 primers, 20 seating depths, different brass, trigger jobs, and possibly even blueprinting if necesarry. All loads are chronoed using an Oehler 35 and all the brass is match prepped with all the wonderful tools from Sinclair, and then checked for runout. Also, the guns are pillar bedded and checked for accurate scope clicks on a grid. All the ammo will be sized by Redding bushing dies and competition seaters. With all this done, usually it will shoot to expectations. And you are right, it might not be profitable on some guns, but hopefully it will even out in the end. It almost becomes a challenge to me at times and I forget about the money. After I find "the" load, I take that person out to the range and teach them what those "funny things" under the scope caps do. I laser range my gong settup at all the different ranges from 100 to 1000, then pull out my lap top and show them their drop chart in minutes for their load. Then we click in the minutes and fire. So far, everyone has done what they thought was impossible 5 minutes earlier. It works out pretty well for us.
    May I pose another question. How often does the load that the manual says is most accurate in their rifle actually the accuracy load for your gun? In my experience, it has happened only ONCE! Certainly shows the differences in individual barrels doesn't it?
    Thanks again.
    --goodgrouper

    [ 09-22-2004: Message edited by: goodgrouper ]
     
  7. LB

    LB Well-Known Member

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    Re: What reloading manuals are most accurate to y\'all?

    Goodgrouper,

    You need to write questions that give a hint at your intellect, so that the replies that you receive are easier to understand. To INSULT someone that takes the time to give you a response; any answer, at all, is rude, dude.

    If you are such an advanced handloader, I wonder why you don't already know all the answers? Using data from any manual is only as good as you apply it to each situation. Accuracy handloading for someone else has a boatload of problems, as has already been pointed out. Beyond that, IF you know anything, at all, you know that a published, "accurate load" or "highest velocity load" is not worth much more than a curiosity. An accurate load in a test gun is just that: test gun accurate loadif that helps, a little?

    Free advice; reconsider your attitude, or your on-line experience will be less than satisfactory. It never hurts to be kind to ALL people that respond.

    Personally, I would have written something a little more grateful. "Thanks for all the responses, especially JR and JT". Imagine how I felt, having ACTUALLY READ the question, and seeing your response suggest that those other, unnamed respondents had not taken the time to read your question. I answered a question I failed to read? Didn't understand what you were saying? Exactly what are you trying to tell me? If I interpret, "you are stupid" would I be far off?

    You are welcome, in any case.

    Good hunting. LB
     
  8. goodgrouper

    goodgrouper Well-Known Member

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    Re: What reloading manuals are most accurate to y\'all?

    LB,
    No need to get hostile here man, I promise. I did not try to insult anyone else who replied to my post on this subject, but I will admit that I was somewhat frustrated last night by a few people that were showing their poor reading skills. I was kind of taking a general view of all the replies I have gotten since joining this forum, some of which just didn't seem like the poster read the whole question. Other members and myself were talking about this on another subject post about how no one seems to really be answering the questions in the way we'd hoped. They leave out parts and try to impress us instead of sticking to the matter at hand. I apologize for being vague in my questions, but I believe I used common english. I can only hope that people are educated enough to understand the simple parts of the question. I did not mean to insinuate that you were one of the dumb ones. In fact, from what I have read of your posts since joining, I would have to say that you are one of the better posters, and I always enjoy reading what you write. I think you and I have a lot in common when it comes to views about most topics thus far. In response to your accusations, no I do not claim to know everything. I am an above average reloader, but I will never admit to being an expert no matter how much I learn. As far as the accuracy loads are concerned, I agree with you that it is a curiosity. That's why I asked the question. I was curious to see how often those loads really ended up being other peoples accuracy loads. That's all. Oh yeah, I did also ask if anyone had heard about the Norma manual.
    Again, I am sorry to have confused or offended. It was not my intention. Unfortunately, 75% of human communication is non-verbal facial expressions, and we do not have that luxury in this media yet. I will try to be more clear and show my intentions a little more clearly from now on.
    peace, love, and powder for all!
    goodgrouper

    [ 09-22-2004: Message edited by: goodgrouper ]

    [ 09-22-2004: Message edited by: goodgrouper ]
     
  9. LB

    LB Well-Known Member

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    Re: What reloading manuals are most accurate to y\'all?

    I guess I overreacted. Sorry.

    Good hunting. LB
     
  10. LB

    LB Well-Known Member

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    Re: What reloading manuals are most accurate to y\'all?

    Duly noted; much better plan, in retrospect....I'll behave <gulp>

    Good hunting. LB
     
  11. Len Backus

    Len Backus Administrator Staff Member

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    Re: What reloading manuals are most accurate to y\'all?

    LB

    My thoughts were general and not directed at anyone in particular. [​IMG]
     
  12. goodgrouper

    goodgrouper Well-Known Member

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    Re: What reloading manuals are most accurate to y\'all?

    jerryteo,
    I agree with you wholeheartedly. The last thing we need is more bubbas out there flinging lead. I'm going to do my best to educate so that doesn't happen, and anyway most these guys won't take shots over a couple hundred yards but they like the idea that if they want to go practice at further distances, they know the gun is up to it.
    --goodgrouper
    ps. Didn't mean to sound pissy, just thought I needed to explain the situation.
    pss. Have you heard about the Norma manual?
     
  13. Mysticplayer

    Mysticplayer Writers Guild

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    Re: What reloading manuals are most accurate to y\'all?

    I hope there are lots of people in your area or else that hands on approach is going to be tough.

    I am sure you have thought of this already but, just because a load shoots well for you, may not shoot well for the another shooter. You really have no control on their skill level or shooting environment. Could lead to some interesting and frustrating phone calls.

    Also, although though this board is dedicated to LR hunting, Myself and others take the ABILITY to shoot LR very seriously.

    Having a rifle/load capable of hitting a gong at 500yds on a range does not necessarily make that rig suitable or capable of hitting an animal at the same distance under field conditions.

    I can only voice my view point that if I were to offer any type of service to promote LR hunting, I would certainly want patrons to understand the responsibility and ethics before pulling the trigger. "see it shoot it" does not work for me.

    Most hunters today have precious little time and interest to shoot. At 200yds and under, that is bad enough with many wounded animals every year. At extended ranges, simply irresponsible.

    I am sure you know where this soap box is going so please take the time and ensure your stuff goes to people that will respect the potential for success and failure.

    We don't need anymore BuBBa's launching lead around the countryside just because they are armed with the newest super magnum with super tuned ammo and a rangefinder.

    Good luck with your business venture.

    Jerry

    PS when I get posts that don't quite rub me the right way, I either ignore it or respond by personal email/off site. Keeps the bitching to a min. on these wonderful boards. We get enough cat fighting in our everyday lives.
     
  14. Len Backus

    Len Backus Administrator Staff Member

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    Re: What reloading manuals are most accurate to y\'all?

    Jerry

    PS when I get posts that don't quite rub me the right way, I either ignore it or respond by personal email/off site. Keeps the bitching to a min. on these wonderful boards. We get enough cat fighting in our everyday lives.

    Thank you very much for your comment. Why not use email more often to discuss emotional issues?