Vertical stringing

It was said earlier that you need to make a list and eliminate each item as a potential issue.

Having read the list above let's eliminate the hand loading as an issue. Consider buying some quality factory ammo that the rifle will like and see if the issue replicates.
 
Last time I had a vertical stringing issue my recoil lug / Stock interface was the issue, if velocity is consistent, check all of your action, lug, bbl interfaces
 
Having a problem with vertical stringing, vertical flyers. Here's what I have

Rifle is a trued rem 700 with a 26" bartlein barrel. Mbm beast brake. Hs precision stock, Timney trigger. 300 win mag

Load is adg brass, fed 215, 225 ELDM, rl26 brass has now all been fired and shoulders bumped back .002, .002 neck tension .010" off the lands

So it seems the problem is with multiple powders, bullets. My load currently is 73 gr. Is right over 2900 fps with es of around 20. Yesterday morning and this morning I shot 4 shot groups at 410 yards. 3 went into about 1.25" but had one flyer that strung vertical. It seems I've had vertical stringing issues with this rifle since the start of the new barrel. I thought it was a bedding issue but I've swapped stocks and re bed the rifle twice. I thought it could be a rear bag issue but I've tried two different bags. Tried a bipod and a front rest and still having the issue. What's everyone's thoughts? I have lost faith in the Smith for other reasons so I don't want to take it back to him. Should I have another Smith check it out? Could it be a seating depth issue? I'm at my wit's end with the rifle and don't know where to go. It wants to shoot .25 min groups most of the time but I just can't seem to get it together.
ES of 20 FPS is pretty high. Try doing a ladder test to find a proper load.
 

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ES of 20 FPS is pretty high. Try doing a ladder test to find a proper load.
These groups were shot with only changing seating depth of the load all at 100 yards, no adjustment to the scope. One above the orange circle was closet to the lands, the lower right was .010 deeper upper right was another .010 deeper im gonna try another .010 deeper at 500 I like how there's more of a cluster the one is a little out but its definitely telling me it likes being off the lands.
Notice how the P.O.I. changes
I agree. Prob 99% of the time it's a reloading issue. Improper powder charge or incorrect distance of the lands.
 
I think you will see the answer when changing to the standard rifle primer. I had really crazy 2+1 groups with my 300WSM and H4350 powder with 180gr Trophy bonded tip bullets until I switched from Fed215M to Fed210M primers. I have found with several different cartridges (25-06/retumbo, 9.3x62/BigGame, 6.5-284/Retumbo, and 300WSM/4350) that sometimes changing primers can get grouping much more consistent and eliminate fliers.
Before someone says "well if you have a tight ES/SD then you have the right primer", no I was getting ES of 8fps but still had fliers until I changed primers.
 
Having a problem with vertical stringing, vertical flyers. Here's what I have

Rifle is a trued rem 700 with a 26" bartlein barrel. Mbm beast brake. Hs precision stock, Timney trigger. 300 win mag

Load is adg brass, fed 215, 225 ELDM, rl26 brass has now all been fired and shoulders bumped back .002, .002 neck tension .010" off the lands

So it seems the problem is with multiple powders, bullets. My load currently is 73 gr. Is right over 2900 fps with es of around 20. Yesterday morning and this morning I shot 4 shot groups at 410 yards. 3 went into about 1.25" but had one flyer that strung vertical. It seems I've had vertical stringing issues with this rifle since the start of the new barrel. I thought it was a bedding issue but I've swapped stocks and re bed the rifle twice. I thought it could be a rear bag issue but I've tried two different bags. Tried a bipod and a front rest and still having the issue. What's everyone's thoughts? I have lost faith in the Smith for other reasons so I don't want to take it back to him. Should I have another Smith check it out? Could it be a seating depth issue? I'm at my wit's end with the rifle and don't know where to go. It wants to shoot .25 min groups most of the time but I just can't seem to get it together.
Make sure you are not putting any downward pressure on your stock, that will help a lot, your off hand should be resting on your bench.
 
I will go back out tomorrow with the exact same load but with cci 200, cci 250 and wlrm primers and see what kind of results I get.
You need to be careful with the primer switch idea as some might put your load into max pressure ranges if it was close to start with 😵
Also may want to verify the scope for the vertical issue as I had one to do this just before it failed completely 🤔
 
Having a problem with vertical stringing, vertical flyers. Here's what I have

Rifle is a trued rem 700 with a 26" bartlein barrel. Mbm beast brake. Hs precision stock, Timney trigger. 300 win mag

Load is adg brass, fed 215, 225 ELDM, rl26 brass has now all been fired and shoulders bumped back .002, .002 neck tension .010" off the lands

So it seems the problem is with multiple powders, bullets. My load currently is 73 gr. Is right over 2900 fps with es of around 20. Yesterday morning and this morning I shot 4 shot groups at 410 yards. 3 went into about 1.25" but had one flyer that strung vertical. It seems I've had vertical stringing issues with this rifle since the start of the new barrel. I thought it was a bedding issue but I've swapped stocks and re bed the rifle twice. I thought it could be a rear bag issue but I've tried two different bags. Tried a bipod and a front rest and still having the issue. What's everyone's thoughts? I have lost faith in the Smith for other reasons so I don't want to take it back to him. Should I have another Smith check it out? Could it be a seating depth issue? I'm at my wit's end with the rifle and don't know where to go. It wants to shoot .25 min groups most of the time but I just can't seem to get it together.

I'm no expert, for darn sure. But...

I've had loose scope mounts cause stringing, but IIRC, they were diagonal strings. If the primer is the culprit, as some have suggested, then the most logical reason would be differences in the MV and your ES of 20 (wow, that's LOW...maybe I suck as a reloader) would suggest not. Sure, timing of the barrel (harmonics) could be a factor with inconsistent ignition, but I would *expect* to get a larger spread all over (circular), not vertical. And an ES of 20 is not indicative of varying MV. Are you running the chrono on the groupings? Maybe some other factor is playing hell with your load and the test MV loads are different than the grouping loads (ask me about a fly that died in my powder throw).

Forgive me if it's already been suggested and I missed it: I would try factory ammunition and see how it groups. You've re-stocked and re-bed the rifle or I'd look for some intermittent contact with the barrel when it's loaded on the rests/bags/bipod. FWIW, I'll say this anyway: on an AR w/M-LOK handguard I had installed a bi-pod mount under the gas block. Like a dipstick, I didn't realize that the 20-30 thousandths of clearance with one of the M-LOK screws was a problem. Until it threw bullets all over the #$%# place. Much frustration later I found that when I set the rifle on the bipod and pulled it down snugly, not tight, the whole thing flexed just enough to cause that one fastener to contact the barrel where it was larger in diameter closer to the chamber. Upon removal of the handguard, I found a shiny spot on the barrel from said contact. DOH! But, still, it was not vertical stringing...stuff was all over.

If the factory ammo does the same thing then switch the scope (after carefully checking, re-checking, and torquing the fasteners (all of them) involved in mounting the scope).

FWIW, I've chambered a few rifle barrels (made AR and Savage and one Rem 700) from blanks on my own lathe myself (no, I'm not a gunsmith). I took a cheap ($35) 6mm LBC or somesuch and cut and chambered it to be an 11.5" 6mm-223. I threaded the barrel and put a Yankee Hill Turbo on it...that's a "dedicated" 224 suppressor and I do not get baffle strikes. That to say, I have a little experience with making finished barrels from blanks. I cannot imagine how the gunsmith could have screwed up that barrel to cause vertical stringing (not by mis-aligned chamber or over-throating, or whatever). I could be wrong...I've been married...twice. However, you might, in as much as you are able to do so, check the barrel fitment into the receiver...is it loose? Try checking the torque of the barrel into the receiver. Still, I'd expect circular spreads, not vertical, but you've had a lot of frustration...might as well check everything.

FWIW, HTH, YMMV, EIEIO.

--HC
 
I change powder charge if my SD is high and I have windage issues. I change my seating depth if I have vertical issues. Works for me. I don't hunt anymore as at 72 I have issues with bad knees and a bad back. I don't want to hold any up that hunts with me. I shoot competitive target long range (1000) yards and have had good success. At 72 a sport where you can lie down is right up my alley. Some time ago I was tutored by an winning shooter to first determine the load with the lowest SD not even looking at the target. When this is determined you look at the seating depth with intervals of .005. When the best is found you can further refine this within .002.
Best primer selection should be seen in the SD and on the target but has not improved vertical stinging.
This is just my observations. Good advise is hard to come by and free advise is worth what you pay for it.
 
Having a problem with vertical stringing, vertical flyers. Here's what I have

Rifle is a trued rem 700 with a 26" bartlein barrel. Mbm beast brake. Hs precision stock, Timney trigger. 300 win mag

Load is adg brass, fed 215, 225 ELDM, rl26 brass has now all been fired and shoulders bumped back .002, .002 neck tension .010" off the lands

So it seems the problem is with multiple powders, bullets. My load currently is 73 gr. Is right over 2900 fps with es of around 20. Yesterday morning and this morning I shot 4 shot groups at 410 yards. 3 went into about 1.25" but had one flyer that strung vertical. It seems I've had vertical stringing issues with this rifle since the start of the new barrel. I thought it was a bedding issue but I've swapped stocks and re bed the rifle twice. I thought it could be a rear bag issue but I've tried two different bags. Tried a bipod and a front rest and still having the issue. What's everyone's thoughts? I have lost faith in the Smith for other reasons so I don't want to take it back to him. Should I have another Smith check it out? Could it be a seating depth issue? I'm at my wit's end with the rifle and don't know where to go. It wants to shoot .25 min groups most of the time but I just can't seem to get it together.


Did you take velocity readings? Assuming good discipline in loading.....
I have always found this to be an effect of inconsistent shoulder pressure when firing.
Hold tighter and shots go higher. Hold softer and they go lower. Also consider consistency of hold on foreend. Consistency matters...more than how tightly or gently you hold.
 
Vertical string issues I've had or seen all were scope mount or scope issues. Fed 215 primers have been flawless in my experience and powder issues will usually cause wind age and elevation issues, but a velocity check with your chrono can help you there. Take the scope off and remount using specified torque for your rifle and mount. I always use blue loctite on mounts but not on rings. That's your decision. Good luck with your issue
 
Did you take velocity readings? Assuming good discipline in loading.....
I have always found this to be an effect of inconsistent shoulder pressure when firing.
Hold tighter and shots go higher. Hold softer and they go lower. Also consider consistency of hold on foreend. Consistency matters...more than how tightly or gently you hold.
Reloading with our taking velocity readings is an exercise in futility. It is as important as all the steps we take to insure an accurate load. I see competitive shooter that take their doppler radar the LabRadar out every time they shoot to make sure they have loaded correctly and that the load still works as they address throat erosion.
 
My .02 cents. Three things are absolutes in shooting: Combustion, Harmonics and Ballistics consistency. Combustion involves primer, case, powder and bullet. Harmonics are tuner and or seating depth. Ballistics are bullet weight and design consistency. From what you are saying, I would work on your seating depth!! If your primers are good, case is top quality and powder is the right one that leaves bullet seating depth. You're shooting Bergers which have a reputation as being expensive and GOOD!

Matt_C
 
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