Update on head space and stuck case problem.

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by RangerBrad, Oct 13, 2012.

  1. RangerBrad

    RangerBrad Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    290
    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2010
    In a couple of my previous posts I mentioned I had stuck a case in my redding full length s bushing die. Removed with extractor (whew). Using redding imperial case neck lube it sizes easy now. I still have a head space problem which may well be the case holder. I'll explain and listen to your ideas. This is a 25-06 and it is obvious when looking at new and 1x brass there is a huge diffrent in angle of shoulder. I am using a redding full length s bushing die with expander removed. I am using an RCBS #3 case holder in a Rockchucker press and winchester brass. The die is set in the press deep enough to get a good but not to stiff cam over when the press is fully raised, just as you might have it when sizing virgin brass.The once fired brass before being resized measures between 2.032 and 2.034 using the hornady head space gauge. The brass is lubed and run through the die then wiped of and remeasured The head space does not change when checked. Still in the 2.032 to 2.034 range. Putting the brass in the chamber makes for a little bit of stiff bolt but not terrible. The cases length when virgin was trimmed to 2.484 using the sinclair/wilson micro-trimmer after one firing they have grown to an average of 2.491 I am working 89 rounds and they all show the same appx. measurments, so this is a goodly amount to show and not an anomaly. I also have an RCBS FL sizing die and it is also set with a cam over for virgin brass when using it the results of head space are the same. Lets hear yals thoughts. Brad
     
  2. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,264
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    Is it camming over against the shellholder?
     

  3. RangerBrad

    RangerBrad Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    290
    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2010
    yes
     
  4. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,264
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    It sounds like you're doing what is reasonably expected
    How much differential is there in diameters near webs and at shoulders, between new, fired, & sized case?
    What does your head space gauge measure on NEW brass?
     
  5. boomtube

    boomtube Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,595
    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2007
    "Cam over", as such, means nothing, all that matters is how far the cases go into the sizer.

    Put a case in the shell holder, push the ram fully up and look under the die to see if there's a sliver of light between it and the shell holder. If there is, and I suspect there is, turn the die down until the gap is closed.
     
  6. RangerBrad

    RangerBrad Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    290
    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2010
    Without a case in the press the die bottoms out aginst the shell holder but, as boomtube stated with a case in the shell holder there is a thin amount of light seenbetweenthe die and the side of the shell holder. I don't have any virgin brass left so I don't know how they measure aginst each other. howevr it's visually obvious that the virgin brass has a much sharper anglt to the shoulder than the 1x brass. Brad
     
  7. dbhostler

    dbhostler Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    837
    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2002
    Quick question, why would you set the shoulder back on new brass? You should be fireforming the new brass to your chamber and then adjusting the die to resize just enough for a good fit. So, try running new brass through the FL die just enough to straighten the neck, seat the bullet out far enough that it forces it into the lands and pushes the case base into the bolt face to adjust the headspace and adjust the FL die to where the bolt has just a slight amount of resistance when caming over. This should help.
    db
     
  8. Sully2

    Sully2 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,480
    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2011

    Just from reading the text...it sounds to me like the rifle isnt chambered correctly! The shoulder angle should be close to IDENTICAL to the unfired...new....factory ammo. So much so that many times all one needs is to resize the mouth to open for a new slug and then to seat and tighten down on the slug. No GREATLY visible difference should exist between once fired casings and brand new unfired ones....???
     
  9. SidecarFlip

    SidecarFlip Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,113
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2011
    Getting back to the die itself, I'm patently curious as to what the cases look like after the stuck case was extracted. I've never been able to extract a case by any accepted method, where the die didn't have to be polished inside after the event. Stuck is siezed and siezed is metal transfer of some degree.
     
  10. Brush4646

    Brush4646 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    53
    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2003
    I think you are pushing your shoulders back to far causing a bulge at the wall shoulder juction.
    Do what ( dbhostler) says. I have competition shell holder sets but you can do it with feeler guages.Run the ram up and put a .012 feeler guage between the shell holder and screw the die down to it. Try it in the gun go in .002 incurments till the bolt drops easy with out the firing pin in it. You won't get a go feel unless the firing pin is out.
    Brush