Trouble with shooting 1 MOA even at 200m's

[Russmann]

Hello everyone..
So yes I am novice when it comes to LR shooting, but also dont consider 200 and 300m's that far either..

I have a Howa 1500 HCR with a bull barrel, with a Leupold 6.5-20x50 scope..
I find I battle to hit the same area within 1 or 2 Moa consistency..

Although I am not brilliant at shooting, I am also not a total idiot when it comes to breathing, holding still, handing recoil and so on, and feel i should be more accurate than I am,

so, here the questions I dont seem to be able to get straight answers with :-

1. Will changing my type of Amo help... with a Hornady be more accurate than a PMP or more than one or the other... and does anyone have any suggestion on which is the better make for this particular setup?
2. If I zero my scope at 100m's and then shoot 200m's, the difference is around 4 MOA, which is 4 inches right??? and my gun shop tells me the Leupold is 4 clicks per 1 MOA.. which means, 4 X 4 MOA is 16 clicks to adjust for the height. But I find its more like 23-25 clicks using the same 168gm round?? why?
3. How many shots at a time, can the rifle fire accurately before I need to let the barrel cool down. Half the people I chat to tell me 5 shots, wait 15 minutes, the other half tell me "its a bull barrel, makes no difference"..

Appreciate your advice to a starter shooter

Thanks all

 

[silverhair]

I must have missed the part about what cartridge and caliber you're using. But I will share my experience with a new Howa 6.5CM.

I'm a rookie shooting a Howa 1500 Gameking 22" #2 barrel in 6.5CM with a Nikko Gameking 3.5-10x50mm scope. Rifle is the low-end, entry level Howa / Hogue 6.5 CM bought new a few months ago. I put the barreled action with scope on an Archangel stock and replaced the bipod (after a catastrophic failure of the legs). I'm using mostly Hornady American Shooter BTHP 140gr. Gun only has around 120 rds through it, but seems to be settling and broken in. At 100yds it's pretty consistent at 1/2 MOA, 200yds less than 1" groups. Sometimes I have to tweak the scope a little to keep on the target center, but the groups remain tight. (I will be changing the scope to a Vortex Diamondback Tactical 6 - 24x50mm FFP scope in the near future. Just have to get off my butt and do it.)

I have found that groups will open up a bit when the barrel heats. The gun also seems to shoot tighter after a couple of rounds (dirty barrel). But that just might be me settling in. This is a #2 profile barrel, so it will temperature cycle pretty quickly.

I would suggest trying different ammo. Buy a box each of a few different bullet profiles, ELD, ELD-M, ELD-X, BTHP. 20 rds of each should tell you what your gun likes.

Personally, I haven't shot anything but Hornady at the suggestion of a couple of local shooters. Even performed the Howa-recommended breaking using Hornady ammo. But your gun is your gun and may like something else.

YMMV.

 

[FURMAN]

There are a lot of things to address in your post but I think the first is to find the ammo your rifles prefers. Every rifle is different. You can not just throw any ammo and expect it to shoot well.

 

[cohunt]

As far as #2 goes.
Where did you see if you zero at 100, then you need to adjust 4 moa at 200?

Let your gun/ammo/scope tell you what the drop is. If it takes 23-25 clicks to be on target then that's what you need to dial. Also you appear to be shooting in meters not yards so that changes things just a bit also.

Most scopes are either 1/4 moa, 1/4 mil or 1/4" clicks--- but not all of them, some are 1/2, some are 1/8, I've even seen a few with 1moa clicks --- I think your scope should be 1/4moa , but you may have the European version (being from Gauteng) which is usually done in 1cm clicks.

We will need more details on your scope, ammo, muzzle velocity, and shooting conditions (like altitude, Gauteng shows an altitude of 5000') to help out more

When it comes to #1, yes-- try as many different types of ammo as you can to find the most accurate for your gun in your conditions

 

[erikblank]

Don't take this wrong, but can you shoot MOA? I mean if someone hands you a rifle that shoots better than MOA, can you at least shoot MOA? I don't know you and I'm not trying to offend you. However, it's very common for people blame the tool and not the operator. I'd start by moving in closer, 50 to 100 meters. Go out with a friend. Have them watch you when you shoot. See if you flinch or have any ticks that might throw off your game. Once you can take yourself out of the equation, then move to the rifle and longer distances.

A good air rifle or a .22 can be your best friend for practicing form, breathing and trigger control. I personally have an airgun that if I do everything right, I can shoot 10 shot groups .025 @ 15 yards. I practice so much it gets boring. After a while I started shootings playing cards on their side in half. The point is I've practice enough to know what's me and what's the rifle. Have you?

 

[HobieH3]

Hello everyone..
So yes I am novice when it comes to LR shooting, but also dont consider 200 and 300m's that far either..

I have a Howa 1500 HCR with a bull barrel, with a Leupold 6.5-20x50 scope..
I find I battle to hit the same area within 1 or 2 Moa consistency..

Although I am not brilliant at shooting, I am also not a total idiot when it comes to breathing, holding still, handing recoil and so on, and feel i should be more accurate than I am,

so, here the questions I dont seem to be able to get straight answers with :-

1. Will changing my type of Amo help... with a Hornady be more accurate than a PMP or more than one or the other... and does anyone have any suggestion on which is the better make for this particular setup?
2. If I zero my scope at 100m's and then shoot 200m's, the difference is around 4 MOA, which is 4 inches right??? and my gun shop tells me the Leupold is 4 clicks per 1 MOA.. which means, 4 X 4 MOA is 16 clicks to adjust for the height. But I find its more like 23-25 clicks using the same 168gm round?? why?
3. How many shots at a time, can the rifle fire accurately before I need to let the barrel cool down. Half the people I chat to tell me 5 shots, wait 15 minutes, the other half tell me "its a bull barrel, makes no difference"..

Appreciate your advice to a starter shooter

Thanks all

4 MOA is 8" at 200. And yes the ammo can make quite a difference.

 

[Remmy700]

1. Changing the type of ammo can make a huge difference. I reload for about everything but if I choose to shoot factory ammo I do same process as if I am doing test loads. I get as many different boxes of quality ammo (Hornady Match, Federal Gold Medal Match, Prime, etc. etc.) and I take each box and shoot 4, 5 shot groups over chorno. I then average group size and extreme spread and then will choose a winner. You will be shocked the difference in how your gun will shoot with ammo it likes vs. ammo it does not.
2. That seems to be a very excessive amount of drop from 100 to 200. However, this is all determined by your velocity. If shooting factory ammo you are limited to that velocity. The only thing mechanical that could really affect this would be your scope is not tracking correctly, or your click values are off with the assumption of coarse that everything is good mechanically on your rifle.
3. How many rounds you shoot per string is up to you really. Most guns will throw flyers once they start getting to hot. Besides that the hotter you get your barrel the less the overall barrel life will be. I tend to shoot no more than 5 rounds at a time and let me stuff cool down. That's why it is best to take multiple guns so while one cools you can hammer on another.
Make sure to go over your entire rifle and check torques on everything. Action screws, scope base screws, scope rings. Also get you some snap caps and just sit on that gun and work it. Focus on your form, especially on your breathing, trigger pull and get consistent cheek weld. Ensure your gun is setup for you, LOP, cheek height and eye relief. By reading your post it does not sound like your a MOA shooter which is fine but the only way to get better is critiquing your form and correcting it. Also ensure you are doing your gun maintenance as needed and correctly. Best of luck brother and you will get there! The best way to solve a problem is admitting there is one, but on this forum we all try and help each other out!

 

[BigGrizz]

Hello everyone..
So yes I am novice when it comes to LR shooting, but also dont consider 200 and 300m's that far either..

I have a Howa 1500 HCR with a bull barrel, with a Leupold 6.5-20x50 scope..
I find I battle to hit the same area within 1 or 2 Moa consistency..

Although I am not brilliant at shooting, I am also not a total idiot when it comes to breathing, holding still, handing recoil and so on, and feel i should be more accurate than I am,

so, here the questions I dont seem to be able to get straight answers with :-

1. Will changing my type of Amo help... with a Hornady be more accurate than a PMP or more than one or the other... and does anyone have any suggestion on which is the better make for this particular setup?
2. If I zero my scope at 100m's and then shoot 200m's, the difference is around 4 MOA, which is 4 inches right??? and my gun shop tells me the Leupold is 4 clicks per 1 MOA.. which means, 4 X 4 MOA is 16 clicks to adjust for the height. But I find its more like 23-25 clicks using the same 168gm round?? why?
3. How many shots at a time, can the rifle fire accurately before I need to let the barrel cool down. Half the people I chat to tell me 5 shots, wait 15 minutes, the other half tell me "its a bull barrel, makes no difference"..

Appreciate your advice to a starter shooter

Thanks all

I'm guessing that you're shooting a 308 with 168s. In that case 4" is about right for drop.

Your adjustments could be 1/8 instead 1/4. Not a big deal. It will be more precise.

Shoot as many shots as you like. Reload and stop wasting money on "good" box ammo.

My guess is you need better shooting mechanics. Get yourself setup right and squeeze the trigger.

 

[User4302021]

Something is wrong, because the difference between a 100m zero and a 200m zero is not 4 MOA. More like 2 to 2.5 MOA.

 

[BigGrizz]

Something is wrong, because the difference between a 100m zero and a 200m zero is not 4 MOA. More like 2 to 2.5 MOA.

Nevermind

 

[JanPr]

Russman mentioned PMP ammo.You all LRH guys may not be familiar with this ammo but it is usually a slow cartridge even if the caliber is hot! And yes, its accuracy is not always state of the art. All my SA and Nam Friends have problems in getting consistently precise ammo!

 

[Swiftkill]

Id limit big cartridges to 3 round groups. Let cool a little.

Do you have a friend who is a better shot than you and maybe see what he or she can do with the gun? Also what rest are you using? If you're using a by pod it's not gonna be as consistent as a front rest and rear sandbag. Also depending on what the bipod is on it can bounce and drag on a table.
A front rest helps you get the same pressure point on the forearm.
Also, what trigger do you have? I prefer 1 to 1.25# single stage triggers. 3,4,5 # triggers are much more difficult to manage.

Also, some loads can be attrocious. Try something that doesnt seem like it should shoot and yo might be surprised.

Also, make sure your stock screws are tight. 25 -50 in lbs. I find the best place to start is 35 in lbs. Assuming you have solid bedding, not wood alone. Some people make the rear screw tighter than the front screw I would say it's best just to make it even and snug you don't want to stress the action one way or the other.

 

[User4302021]

Nevermind

We must have been typing at the same time. You are correct about the 4" part at 200m. Which would be somewhere around 1.75 MOA at 200m.

The OP: A) doesn't know how to figure MOA, and B) doesn't seem to know what kind of scope he has.

 

[aushunter1]

A bit hard to follow but how is your set up & technique?
Are you practicing dry fire with something like a snap cap, this can be good training!
What is your front & rear rest set up & is this at a range?
What is your trigger pull weight? A heavy trigger can tend to make you pull shots.

More questions than answers.

On shot to cool down it totally depends on the ambient temp as well.
On my varmint barrel profile rifles 5 shots is generally about it before letting it cool down, the larger cartridges obviously produce more heat!