to touch the lands or not to touch the lands

[midwestmoa]

Qeustion bieng loaded some 7 rem mag on the lands and off the lands over the years with same results in accuracy on paper.I Used to think I should load on the lands because my grandpa did it on all his .257 roberts ai catridges in his k98 mauser builds he did for people over the years but I cant really tell the difference wanted to hear some of your pros and cons as to this process from you guys. Thanks

 

[MudRunner2005]

I would leave a bit of a jump... How much of one is up to each individual rifle, as to where it likes the bullet seated. But I would definitely not put anything into the lands of a caliber that was the word "Magnum" at the end of it. Just a good rule of thumb I go by. And even some high-velocity calibers it is not a good idea, whether they are magnums, or not, such as .25-06. That can end very badly.

The reason being, putting a bullet into the lands produces huge pressure spikes and with high velocity, or large capacity magnum calibers that already produce huge chamber pressures, that can be very bad. You can blow up a rifle, and possibly hurt yourself in the process.

 

[FAIRCHASE]

When I can, I start at 0.010" and go from there. However, I am also forced in a few to load at max mag length and accuracy is great (after playing with powder charge).

 

[midwestmoa]

I havent noticed any pressure issues on the lands with imr 4831in 7mag but it probably is different with different powders but most my knowledge is with for that rifle.

 

[midwestmoa]

That also I dont load on the lands any more because honestly I can argue when im getting one hole oblong groups everytime granted Its a day with no shooter error as that is the main cause for alot of bad groups which seems to be 1 out of 10 times I shoot but thats still moa acuracy

 

[Mikecr]

Full seating testing(similar to Berger's recommended) has so far put my best seating off the lands(OTL) for small but hunting capacity cartridges/heavy bullets. I like this, as I don't have to maintain an in the land(ITL) relationship for accuracy to hold over time(with erosion).

As far as pressure, you back off a bit for ITL and work back up to the same pressure/MV.
And I've found it best to back off powder a good amount for seating testing, again as Berger recommends. I do the brunt of my seating testing while fireforming new brass at reduced load.
I do not do full seating testing with a hot load, near max load, or my best load. If I did testing there I'd be affecting too many things at once to tell my seating is actually primary to results.

ITL, or jammed(soft seating) is most useful for underbores relying on hi pressure nodes. These are small non-hunting cartridges. We don't have any problem getting plenty of pressure from large capacity cartridges running a lot of slow powder for heavy bullets. And large capacity cartridges are not viable for very high pressures due to all the chamber area pressure is applied to.
There are a lot of old timers out there that assume bullets should be started ITL. Many have insisted for years that Berger VLDs needed this to shoot. They were never right, and those of us who actually did valid seating testing saw it all along.

 

[dragman]

I would leave a bit of a jump... How much of one is up to each individual rifle, as to where it likes the bullet seated. But I would definitely not put anything into the lands of a caliber that was the word "Magnum" at the end of it. Just a good rule of thumb I go by. And even some high-velocity calibers it is not a good idea, whether they are magnums, or not, such as .25-06. That can end very badly.

The reason being, putting a bullet into the lands produces huge pressure spikes and with high velocity, or large capacity magnum calibers that already produce huge chamber pressures, that can be very bad. You can blow up a rifle, and possibly hurt yourself in the process.

I start all my load development with the bullet leaving a 5-10 thousands mark around the bullet. In my years of loading I almost always end up leaving it jammed after doing testing from Jammed to way off. I am a very experienced loader so I don't find it to be any big deal at all. unless it's already of an unsafe pressure I have never seen one spike pressure badly enough to really be a big deal when going from say .010 off to jammed. I shoot all "magnum" or faster cartridges.

BUT:
I shoot all customs (at least the barrels) I always turn necks and set the shoulders on my brass before I start pushing a round for speed. Always insuring that I have the proper neck clearance so that bounce back doesn't spike pressure

 

[FearNoWind]

Question being - loaded some 7 rem mag on the lands and off the lands over the years with same results in accuracy on paper. I Used to think I should load on the lands because my grandpa did it on all his .257 roberts ai catridges in his k98 mauser builds he did for people over the years but I can't really tell the difference wanted to hear some of your pros and cons as to this process from you guys. Thanks

Your experience confirms what a lot of us who reload have tried to convey to the new shooter/reloader over the years. It cannot be said universally that seating ITL has any advantage over a "jump". There are a few calibers, primarily in custom rifles, that have shown excellent accuracy with bullet seating ITL. But that doesn't mean there isn't another (and perhaps better) node somewhere else in the available range of seating depths; even for that rifle.
Seating ITL is no big deal and, for a certainty, with the variables that exist in the OAL of even the best bullets, seating ITL often means that some are jammed by .000x.
If you have a small caliber bench rest gun that shoots well Seated ITL and you feel comfortable shooting there then it's your choice.
If you ever witness first hand the disintegration of a firearm and, hopefully, survive the experience your entire philosophy about reloading will change - dramatically.
Been there; doen that.
My advice remains that if you can find a node away from the lands, use it.

 

[Sully2]

I do .015 - .020 clear of the lands. I dont want to stick a bullet in the throat ever

 

[Corey Schwanz]

The easy answer is put the bullet where it shoots the best. Sometimes that means touching the rifling and other times it means jumping them off.

Personally, I am not a fan of touching or jamming into the rifling, especially with hunting situations, but target shooting as well. You never know when you may need to eject a live round and it the bullet gets stuck in the rifling when you pull the case off, you will have quite a mess to clean up. Easy way around that is to stay just off the rifling and find what seating depth the rifle likes best.

 

[idaho elk hunter]

I have learned many years ago that the bullets with more bearing surface typically can handle more of a jump, especially flat base hunting bullets.

VLD bullets that have thin jackets and little bearing surface typically like little to no freebore or jump.

The harder the bullet like Barnes prefer freebore. To the point that they shoot ALOT better with jump.

This is not wrote in stone, but most of the time it will save alot of time and heartache.